John McCain is a goddam racist. Ron Paul was discussing about the Middle East and trading with them and he(McCain) states that he doesn't want to "trade Burkahs with the Taliban"..WoooooW.
I'm certainly no fan of McCain, but if you're going to get into the "racist" thing... there are those newsletters of Paul that were circulating in the 80s and 90s with bits like:
* "Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action."
* Although "we are told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."
* In the "Ron Paul Political Report" from October 1992, the writer describes carjacking as the "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos." The author then offers advice from others on how to avoid being carjacked, including "an ex-cop I know," and says, "I frankly don't know what to make of such advice, but even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming."
Now, he says he doesn't know who wrote the content in his newsletters, and disapproves of it, but all that means is that either he was/is believes this stuff, and is now lying about it, or, he was so utterly clueless to allow this type of author(s) to use his name, in his newsletter, to spread their ideas, without knowing a thing about it and was too incompetent to do anything about it...
I'm not one to usually point the accusatory "racist" finger (heck, I wouldn't be all that surprised if some folks would paint me (who's in an interracial marriage and has mixed race children...) with that label based on some of my views even), but still, I'd think the above might be unsettling for someone like you who appears to feel strongly on such a matter.
Keep in mind as well, Paul's apparently a friend of the John Birch Society. Brother, as a Muslim I'd think you really don't want those types of folks running the government here...
Anyhow, I'm hoping you realize by now, the guy isn't winning. If he can't make a decent showing in a place like "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire, where would you think he'll actually be able to do so?
Manam aan qatra-e-shabnam, ba-nok-e-khaar me raqsam..
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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:11 AM
^RP seems to have some troubling views. Since we haven't tried him, we can't really tell if he retains those. I personally am afraid of any 'revolutionary' types who come and turn the whole system upside down. In the end Paul has no sympathy for muslims per-say, unlike, say Kucinich who has ideas of a world peace and equitable distribution etc. Paul wouldn't favor any action even if half of muslims were murdered around the world, since it doesn't directly affect US internally. Kucinich on the other hand wants to strengthen international bodies that build and enforce peace.
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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:18 AM
ShahLatif, on Jan 11 2008, 12:11 AM, said:
^RP seems to have some troubling views. Since we haven't tried him, we can't really tell if he retains those. I personally am afraid of any 'revolutionary' types who come and turn the whole system upside down. In the end Paul has no sympathy for muslims per-say, unlike, say Kucinich who has ideas of a world peace and equitable distribution etc. Paul wouldn't favor any action even if half of muslims were murdered around the world, since it doesn't directly affect US internally. Kucinich on the other hand wants to strengthen international bodies that build and enforce peace.
You know shah, I think that this outlook - that anything "revolutionary", like opposing interventionism abroad, to be dangerous since it turns the whole system upisde down - to be totally wrong-headed.
Specifically, the concern that Ron Paul "wouldn't favor any action even if half of muslims were murdered around the world, since it doesn't directly affect US internally" seems to me to be off the mark. The real concern, from my perspective, is that the US will invade and/or attempt to subjugate half the muslims around the world (or more), and do so on the basis of a feigned attempt to help them establish democracy - or some such nonsense.
As far as I am concerned what is best for the Islamic world, as well as for the US, is that the US be dedicated to non-interference, since our interference is probably the biggest problem which that region faces.
By the way, I will admit to being troubled by some of Dr Paul's comments regarding the Zionist entity. His statement that the US gives 3 times as much aid to the Arab countries, as it does to Israel is incomprehensible. Where he got that bit of misinformation is totally beyond me.
When ... a whole country is unjustly overrun and conquered by a foreign army, and subjected to military law, I think that it is not too soon for honest men to rebel and revolutionize. What makes this duty the more urgent is the fact that the country so overrun is not our own, but ours is the invading army. Henry David Thoreau - "Civil Disobedience"- 1849
Manam aan qatra-e-shabnam, ba-nok-e-khaar me raqsam..
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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:56 PM
^
Greg I was contrasting his foreign policy, arguably his great strength for his supporters, with that of Kucinich. While Kucinich will strengthen international peace making institutions, Ron Paul will totally ignore them. Ron Paul can't possibly agree to any US intervention, positive or negative, on behalf of other nations. Kucinich will on the other hand favor a more collaborative foreign policy where he works with other nations to resolve conflicts around the world, without being predatory. To me that is a much fairer policy that a totally inward looking one, where the US treats a rascal and a good guy equally, doing business with both, without regard to their HR record. I don't see anything wrong with the US worrying about HR violations by bad regimes, as long as their policy is consistent across the board, and as long as they don't violate their own principles..
those comments were made on pauls newsletter when paul was well out of plitics and back working as an OBGYN. If you 've ever read anything he wrote, it doesn't look anything like the stuff that appeared in that newsletter.
and agree with greg, the idea that the US not considering interventionism being a bad thing is absurd on the face of it. I mean, if ONLY that were our problem
My mother's feets are soo beautiful!!! -power of 786
To me that is a much fairer policy that a totally inward looking one, where the US treats a rascal and a good guy equally, doing business with both, without regard to their HR record.
Yeah right. Sure....
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
After all, that picture Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand has to be the 2nd most posted one on this forum.
Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right. Laurens Van der Post, The Lost World of the Kalahari (1958)
I'm certainly no fan of McCain, but if you're going to get into the "racist" thing... there are those newsletters of Paul that were circulating in the 80s and 90s with bits like:
* "Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action."
* Although "we are told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."
* In the "Ron Paul Political Report" from October 1992, the writer describes carjacking as the "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos." The author then offers advice from others on how to avoid being carjacked, including "an ex-cop I know," and says, "I frankly don't know what to make of such advice, but even in my little town of Lake Jackson, Texas, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming."
Now, he says he doesn't know who wrote the content in his newsletters, and disapproves of it, but all that means is that either he was/is believes this stuff, and is now lying about it, or, he was so utterly clueless to allow this type of author(s) to use his name, in his newsletter, to spread their ideas, without knowing a thing about it and was too incompetent to do anything about it...
I'm not one to usually point the accusatory "racist" finger (heck, I wouldn't be all that surprised if some folks would paint me (who's in an interracial marriage and has mixed race children...) with that label based on some of my views even), but still, I'd think the above might be unsettling for someone like you who appears to feel strongly on such a matter.
Keep in mind as well, Paul's apparently a friend of the John Birch Society. Brother, as a Muslim I'd think you really don't want those types of folks running the government here...
Anyhow, I'm hoping you realize by now, the guy isn't winning. If he can't make a decent showing in a place like "Live Free or Die" New Hampshire, where would you think he'll actually be able to do so?
Bro, i'm aware of the newsletters. Ron Paul did not a single word that represents that racist slander. In many cases, he did not even view what was written in the newsletters due to his busy schedule. The people that were responsible for writing those views were fired.
Ron Paul is the most anti-racist individual running. He wants to end the so called "war on drugs", which is basically a pretext to oppress blacks and put them in prison, part of the prison industrial compex. Furthermore, he is very outspoken about the mistreatment of minorities in the judicial system and how they are unfairly treated when compared to their white counterparts.He also considers MLK and Rosa Parks as the blueprint for his ideal of non-voilent civil disobedienace. And finally, his whole ideology focuses on individual liberty, that tracends the concept of race. A concept which has divided American society for centuries.
He has responded to the racist newsletter accusations on CNN.
Have you wondered why he is being called out on this, decades later. On an issue which really has little to do with him personally? Yet the likes of McCain and Guiliani are not condemned for using racist remarks against Chinese, Muslims and their(Guiliani specifically) clampdown on blacks in New York City, putting them in prison for the most trivial of crimes. It's simply because Ron Paul represents a grave threat to the establishment for his outspokeness toward the economy, the federal reserve, the hidden history of the CIA, and speaking out against the U.S Empire, just to name a few. You can disagree with some of what he says, but i don't see how anyone can deny that this is the most honest and dignified politician to come along in a long time.
As for the John Birch Society, i'll admit i know very little about them and Ron Paul's relationship with the group. But thank you for the heads up and i will look into this.
And Finally about him having no chance, i disagree. First off, Ron Paul has had the highest 4th quarter donations of any republican candidate, he was won straw poll after straw poll. What happened in New Hampshire was a crime. It is now CONFIRMED that both Ron Paul and Barrack Obama are victims of voting fraud. In some towns it is proven that Ron Paul got dozens of votes, yet not even ONE was counted. Moreover, the contractor of the voting machines is a convicted felon!! He was in jail for drug trafficking. It is well documented how easily these machines can be hacked into. For more, please do visit http://www.blackboxvoting.org/.
^RP seems to have some troubling views. Since we haven't tried him, we can't really tell if he retains those. I personally am afraid of any 'revolutionary' types who come and turn the whole system upside down. In the end Paul has no sympathy for muslims per-say, unlike, say Kucinich who has ideas of a world peace and equitable distribution etc. Paul wouldn't favor any action even if half of muslims were murdered around the world, since it doesn't directly affect US internally. Kucinich on the other hand wants to strengthen international bodies that build and enforce peace.
Brother, those accusations of racism are a desperate move to undermine Ron Paul. When the Mainstream media attacks an individual or a group, it usually means that the person or group is doing their job and represents a threat to the ruling classes. As i've said earlier, read and listen to what Ron Paul has to say about race in America, not only is he not racist but he is by FAR the most outspoken politician concering the mistreatment of minorities in America. Not even Barrack Obama has said anything about the mistreatment of African Americans.
I think you have been misinformed on Dennis Kucinich. He represents dissent structured by the establishment. If he is so Anti-war, why has he chosen to support Barrack Obama, who has called for attacks on Iran and Pakistan?
You are also wrong about Ron Paul not caring about the treatment of Muslims. Unlike any candidate, he has spefically spoken out against war with Iran, and has encouraged trade with Muslims countries. He is the only candidate that does not blindly support Israel. If you follow his debates with his xenophobic opponents(i.e, the rest of the Republican candidates), he understands the Muslim struggle and the cause and effect, blowback phenomenon that occurs due to U.S intervention in Muslim Lands. Also the only candidate to reject the ludacrious idea that "they hate our freedom". He'll be a GREAT benefit for Muslims if he is elected.
By the way, I will admit to being troubled by some of Dr Paul's comments regarding the Zionist entity. His statement that the US gives 3 times as much aid to the Arab countries, as it does to Israel is incomprehensible. Where he got that bit of misinformation is totally beyond me.
Yea, but Israel is almost an untouchable issue here in the U.S. I think you know more than anyone that him saying too much will probably hurt him more than help. What he really proposes is U.S to stop interfering in Israel and it's conflict with it's neighbours, stop the aid to Israel and it's neighbours. I'm sure he refers to the U.S friendly Govts of Saudia Arabia, Jordon, Egypt etc. Consider this, if the aid to these govts is stopped, it will enable the citizenry of those nations to establish a Goverment that caters to their desires as opposed to puppet regimes that favor only the higher class of those nations, and are really a proxy of the U.S.
John McCain is a goddam racist. Ron Paul was discussing about the Middle East and trading with them and he(McCain) states that he doesn't want to "trade Burkahs with the Taliban"..WoooooW.
Yeh i saw that. I can believe a comment like that was ignored, or that people were so passive, some actually cheered, even tho there was obviously more enthusiasm shown with RPs rebuttal.
When I go out, I leave the music on to guard the souls of the dead. Music of the ancients that carries the smell of grass, and guards the gardens of Babylon hanging in the depths.
- Abdulla al-Harrasi
And you think that unto such as you; a maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew: God gave the secret, and denied it to me? Well, well, what matters it! Continue believing that, too!
Bro, i'm aware of the newsletters. Ron Paul did not a single word that represents that racist slander. In many cases, he did not even view what was written in the newsletters due to his busy schedule. The people that were responsible for writing those views were fired.
I thought RP says he didn't know who wrote them. How did he fire them then? And too busy? Too busy to read a piddly eight page newsletter that came out once a month with his name plastered on the top of it? Is this the type of person you want for president?
Quote
Ron Paul is the most anti-racist individual running. He wants to end the so called "war on drugs", which is basically a pretext to oppress blacks and put them in prison, part of the prison industrial compex.
And in Iran, drug dealers are put to death. I hope you don't support legalizing that cancer on society.
Quote
Have you wondered why he is being called out on this, decades later. On an issue which really has little to do with him personally?
It's called politics. If RP supporters want to be taken seriously with him as a viable candidate, things from his past are going to get dug up.
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As for the John Birch Society, i'll admit i know very little about them and Ron Paul's relationship with the group. But thank you for the heads up and i will look into this.
There one of the most paranoiac, conspiracy laden groups of cranks and nuts out there. They started out as a anti-communist group in the late fifties ("the reds are everywhere!" type thing). Nowadays, they're more likely to rail on about Mexicans and Muslims.
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And Finally about him having no chance, i disagree. First off, Ron Paul has had the highest 4th quarter donations of any republican candidate, he was won straw poll after straw poll. What happened in New Hampshire was a crime. It is now CONFIRMED that both Ron Paul and Barrack Obama are victims of voting fraud. In some towns it is proven that Ron Paul got dozens of votes, yet not even ONE was counted. Moreover, the contractor of the voting machines is a convicted felon!! He was in jail for drug trafficking. It is well documented how easily these machines can be hacked into. For more, please do visit http://www.blackboxvoting.org/.
Akhi, it's one thing to not count a few votes here and there. But seriously, about 8% is what he got. You don't seriously think that if 40% of votes weren't tallied, that no-one would have noticed this? Straw polls don't mean much, and RP has gotten a lot of money via ultra-zealous internet campaigners. Again, unless that translates to reaching out to the mainstream public (beyond the world of internet forums and blogs), then it doesn't really mean much either. RP's best shot was a place like NH. And he lost. Badly. Some quotes I found (these are from RP sympathizers) of his explained it:
"Paul simply underperformed. The problems were threefold: a late start in actual campaigning, a strange ad campaign, and a waste of energy among novice volunteers who should have been getting out the vote."
" ...he’ll start losing supporters after today because of the combination of his loss and that story, but that muckraking probably only lost him a few hundred people tops in the Granite State. Still not enough to think he could have climbed to 4th. And folks, when you finish with 8% of the vote in the state with the biggest concentration of independents, well, it’s time to rethink whether or not you should be in the race. New Hampshire is tailor made for a Libertarian message, and it just didn’t resonate last night."
"...everyone’s favorite GOP oddball – that is except within the Republican Party itself – tanked in the Iowa caucus, finishing a distant fifth and besting only Mr. 9/11, who had skipped the state altogether. Then one of the archeologists digging into Paul’s quixotic background struck a mother lode with the discovery that his campaign newsletters in the early 1990s were filled with bigoted statements... A particular peeve of mine is national candidates who stand zero chance of being elected but stay in a race. While Paul stands for some things that I agree with in the abstract, he couldn’t get elected dog catcher and knows it."
I am supporting Paul for his platform of less government. I would support OJ SImpson if he were running on this. He says he didn't author the racist newsletter, that's good enough for me.
My mother's feets are soo beautiful!!! -power of 786
Dawkter Ron Paul's friends at Stormfront will so love muslims in the country...it will be a great revolution..
The Essence of Gita - Whatever happened, it happened for good. Whatever is happening, is happening for good. Whatever that will happen, it will be for good. What have you lost for which you cry? What did you bring with you, which you have lost? What did you produce, which has destroyed? You did not bring anything when you were born. Whatever you have, you have received from Him. Whatever you will give, you will give to Him. You came empty handed and you will go the same way. Whatever is yours today was somebody else’s yesterday and will be somebody else’s tomorrow. This change is the law of the universe.
who cares? this is all trivial stuff. we aren't electing a new best friend, we are hiring someone for an important job.
do you think he is going to begin segregation again? slavery? are these big burning issues today? i really don't think so.
and the john birch society is an old conservative group that has some racist members but is right about alot of things. and they are CERTAINLY preferable to the neo cons as far as righties go. mild praise i know
I think you are missing the big picture here bro
My mother's feets are soo beautiful!!! -power of 786
who cares? this is all trivial stuff. we aren't electing a new best friend, we are hiring someone for an important job.
do you think he is going to begin segregation again? slavery? are these big burning issues today? i really don't think so.
and the john birch society is an old conservative group that has some racist members but is right about alot of things. and they are CERTAINLY preferable to the neo cons as far as righties go. mild praise i know
I think you are missing the big picture here bro
A man is known by the company he keeps. He has accepted donations from stormfront. That is enough for me.
He wants to give states more rights and we know what Alabama, Mississippi et al want to do.
For the average black and assorted minorities in the US, those ARE indeed the burning issues.
The Essence of Gita - Whatever happened, it happened for good. Whatever is happening, is happening for good. Whatever that will happen, it will be for good. What have you lost for which you cry? What did you bring with you, which you have lost? What did you produce, which has destroyed? You did not bring anything when you were born. Whatever you have, you have received from Him. Whatever you will give, you will give to Him. You came empty handed and you will go the same way. Whatever is yours today was somebody else’s yesterday and will be somebody else’s tomorrow. This change is the law of the universe.
A man is known by the company he keeps. He has accepted donations from stormfront. That is enough for me
gee thanks. so mcain or hillary can launch all the wars they want, the government can spy on us and debase our currency, but because a man from a rascist WEBSITE gave money to the mans candidacy that's enough for you.
give me an example of how states rights would be bad for a black or arab person? do black people not enjoy keeping the entirety of their paycheck? DO arab people prefer governemt make their health care decisions for them?
My mother's feets are soo beautiful!!! -power of 786
gee thanks. so mcain or hillary can launch all the wars they want, the government can spy on us and debase our currency, but because a man from a rascist WEBSITE gave money to the mans candidacy that's enough for you.
Stormfront may be racist, but they at least don't advocate bombing other countries for trivial and false reasons, like Bush does.
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