55 replies to this topic

[Jannati]

Grand Ayatollah Sayyad Mohammad Saeed Al- Hakeem

Q: Amongst the young generation it is almost IMPOSSIBLE now to find a girl for mut'aa to gratify sexual needs in the West and also in the East. Can't we be allowed to do mut'aa with prostitutes for sexual pleasure?

A: It is permissible to marry a prostitute temporarily provided that she understands that it is a religious contract for marriage and not a fee for adultery.

Q: Is it permissible to have mutaa - temperary marriage - with a woman who commits adultery with men?
Is it permissible to have mutaa with a woman who probably commits prostitution and adultery as a job?

A: Yes, it is allowed in both cases.


http://english.alhak...quearchv/ms.htm

[Jannati]

Question: What is the meaning of the expression used by the jurists that “there is no waiting period (‘idda) for an adulterous woman because of her adultery”?

Answer: It means that she is allowed to marry after having committed adultery without observing the ‘idda; and, if she is married, then it is permissible for her husband to have sexual relations with her without observing the ‘idda except in the case of al-wat’i bis-shubha (sexual relation established based on mistaken identity or ignorance of the law).

Q & A » Adultery

http://sistani.org/l...a...d=5&cid=412

[alimohamad40]

When i said this in another thread i got attacked , its been discussed here see it , i gave fatwas of many scholars

http://www.shiachat....h...29308&st=50

walsalaam

Edited by alimohamad40, 08 August 2007 - 08:43 AM.

[Logic]

alimohamad40, on Aug 8 2007, 01:40 PM, said:

When i said this in another thread i got attacked , its been discussed here see it , i gave fatwas of many scholars

http://www.shiachat....h...29308&st=50

walsalaam

And all those scholars agree that it is

undesireable
unpermissable until she has repented

If she hasnt then the fatwa changes. Ask any marjae with a direct question to confirm this if you desire infact post your question and the marjae response for all to see.

Quote

This verse is in no way giving a rule prohibiting the marriage to bad women. If this was truly a religious order and a rule then how did prophets Nooh and Loot both ended up with evil women?!!!!! Evil women for Good men!!!! This appears to contradict your ruling.
The same goes for Asyah and the Pharoah of Musa. She was one of the best women and yet she was for one of the most evil men in history!!!!! Again contradicting that general rule!!!

This same logic is used by the sunies to prove that Aisha was a very good woman because the prophet was a good man and only good women would be for a good man!!!.

Your explanation is offbase. You might want to read the tafsir and look up the meaning of bad women before arriving to your conclusion.

[waiting]

The prequisite was that it was impossible to find non-prostitutes. There is logic in this, in that scenario.

[alimohamad40]

Logic:

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And all those scholars agree that it is
undesireable
unpermissable until she has repented

Are you blind logic seriously?  we will argue even when the fatwa is right infront of us??
I will highlight
1) the hallal ones with Blue
2) the precaution haraam ones with red

Remember precaution is not a definate fatwa, when you face precautions you either go to another Marja3 who makes a definate fatwa or you have to take the precaution


Tahreer alwaseela- Imam Khomainy

Question 18: It’s permissible to do mut3a with the fornicating women but its undesirable specially if she was from the prostitutes or the ones famous for fornication and if he did marry her then let him stop her from evil.  


Minhaj Alsaleheen – Marja Alkhoie

Question 1262: The marriage to the fornicating woman is permissible but as a “Lozoom precaution” he must avoid the marriage to the woman that is Famous for Zina before her repentance is announced.


Minhaj alsaleheen – Alsistani

Question 261: The temporary marriage to the fornicating woman is permissible with undesirability. Yes if she was famous for fornicating then as a “lozoom precaution” the mut3a to her must be avoided until her Repentance is announced.  



Hydayat Al3ibaad – Alsaafi

Question 1239: Its permissible to do mut3a with the fornicating woman with undesirability and if he did mut3a with her let him stop her from evil and as a “mustahab precaution” it should be avoided with the famous for zina woman until her repentance



Jawad Altabrizi:

As a “Mustahab Precaution” the mut3a to woman who is famous for fornication should be left.



Alahkam Alwadhiha- Lankarany:

On an “obligatory precaution” the marriage to the famous for fornication should be left until after her repentance.  


Ajwibat almasael alsharyah- Mohamad Alshirazi:

Question 301: what is the rule for temporarily marrying the famous for zina ?
Answer: the common amongst the scholars is the Undesirability (which means permissibility)


Shahroodi:

Question 214: What is the rule of Mut3a with the fornicating woman?
It is permissible specially after her repentance except if she was famous for Zina then there is talk about this, or if he previously committed the sin with her and she didn’t repent.


Minhaj Alsaleheen- Mohamad Saeed Alhakeem:

Its permissible to marry the Fornicating woman even if she was famous for fornication. yes its undesired to marry her for the man who doesn't know of her repentance or if he orders her to stop the haraam and she doesnt care.




The Mustahab precaution means its not compulsory to take the precaution and therefore the action is permissible however the obligatory and the Lozoom precautions are compulsory precautions which means you have to take the opinion of another scholar who has given a definite fatwa in that issue or just take the precaution.  


In Summury of this document, the Scholars who permit temporary marriage with a prostitute are:


1) Rohollah Alkhomainy

2)Alsafi

3)Altabrizi

4)Mohamad alshirazi

5)Mohamad Saeed alhakeem

The scholars who prohibit the marriage to a prostitute on a compulsory precaution are:

1) Al Khoie

2) Al Sistani

3) Lankarany

references:
http://www.raoofonli...x.php?T=6&id=18

http://hozeh.tebyan....ta/shahr...D2

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Edited by alimohamad40, 08 August 2007 - 09:29 PM.

[gogiison2]

u serious, Mujtahids agree with Muta with a prostitute and then what ....she keeps her job. i disagree. i thought muta was more logically for divorced or widowed so that we could help them in all their needs. i dont believe muta was for sex and "bye". inshaAllah we will be forgiven for these ways.

[BintAlHoda]

what r u guys seriously planning on doing, driving down to the red light district of los angeles and picking up a street walker in ur car?

[-Tranquility-]

BintAlHoda, on Aug 8 2007, 10:23 PM, said:

what r u guys seriously planning on doing, driving down to the red light district of los angeles and picking up a street walker in ur car?

Don't even ask sister.. They know those fatwas by heart, seems very important for them or something. Nonetheless its disgusting , I don't know how they will find permanent wives  in the future when they want to marry a "real wife" rather than a peice of meat.

Muslim men marrying prostitutes? What happened to this world! *puke*

[Logic]

-Tranquility-, on Aug 9 2007, 03:00 AM, said:

Don't even ask sister.. They know those fatwas by heart, seems very important for them or something. Nonetheless its disgusting , I don't know how they will find permanent wives  in the future when they want to marry a "real wife" rather than a peice of meat.

Muslim men marrying prostitutes? What happened to this world! *puke*

Muslim men are quite capabale of all kinds of vile acts but please dont put me the same category as AliMohammed.

[Jannati]

Thank u bro Ali mohammad.

Allah is wth us.

May Allah guide our Bros n Sis.

[3UINE KARBALAIE]

Well done, AliMohamad440.

[Azadar-e-Ali]

Allah Talla desires unmarried people to be patient and exercise self-restraint till they are able to get get married. If someone has fear of falling into sin, then it is better for him to find chaste women (not prostitutes). But a pious man will remain sexually patient, exercise self-control and self-restraint till he is able to get married rather than doing mutah with a prostitute (even though it may be allowed).  

Here is what Allah says about men who have fear of falling into sin:

"If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (4:25)

Thus, a person who can save himself from sin by remaining patient and practising self-restraint may be much better in the eyes of Allah than the one who does mutah with a prostitute (even though it is is permissible). Patience and the power to control and limit sexual temptation till halal means are available is a great virtue. We should not undermine its importance by thinking that if there is fear of falling into sin, then mutah with a prostitute would be the best way to remain chaste. Instead, sexual patience before marriage is one the greatest of all worships.

When a man complained to the Prophet(s) of his inability to get married, the Prophet(s) advised him to be patient and keep regular fasts but he did not advise him to do mutah with a prostitute. So, please do not under-estimate the greatness of being sexually patient before marriage and do not believe that mutah before marriage is the only way to remain chaste.  
Wassalam

Edited by Azadar-e-Ali, 09 August 2007 - 03:44 AM.

[cocomoose@wawa]

thats disquesting and those marjahs know nothing.

[jawadhussain]

BintAlHoda, on Aug 9 2007, 03:23 AM, said:

what r u guys seriously planning on doing, driving down to the red light district of los angeles and picking up a street walker in ur car?

LOL!!!

[Logic]

cocomoose@wawa, on Aug 10 2007, 03:19 PM, said:

thats disquesting and those marjahs know nothing.

The fatwa is being explained wrongly to justify the sins.


You must be truthful to yourself and muta has its valid conditions

1) Mutah = marriage be it temporary, So the first question is, Would any shia individual marry a prostitute who has not repented?

2) Alimohammed previously stated, He doesnt care if she (prostitute doesnt observe iddah). Well what about Am’r Bil-Ma’roof (enjoining what is good) & Nahi Anil Munkar (Forbidding what is wrong)

3) How are you able to marry temp but not permenant?


I see a lot of answers but the questions are missing.. Please provide proper questions and proper reference links preferable in english.

Quote

Tahreer alwaseela- Imam Khomainy

Question 18: It’s permissible to do mut3a with the fornicating women but its undesirable specially if she was from the prostitutes or the ones famous for fornication and if he did marry her then let him stop her from evil.

Hence your "I dont care" excuse goes out of the window

Quote

Hydayat Al3ibaad – Alsaafi

Question 1239: Its permissible to do mut3a with the fornicating woman with undesirability and if he did mut3a with her let him stop her from evil and as a “mustahab precaution” it should be avoided with the famous for zina woman until her repentance

How did this fall under the halal category?

Quote

As a “Mustahab Precaution” the mut3a to woman who is famous for fornication should be left.

meaning dont associate yourself with her. Keep away from her

Quote

Ajwibat almasael alsharyah- Mohamad Alshirazi:

Question 301: what is the rule for temporarily marrying the famous for zina ?
Answer: the common amongst the scholars is the Undesirability (which means permissibility)

Undesirability does not mean permissible.. Undesirability means

   1. Not likely to please; objectionable: undesirable intrusions.
   2. Not wanted: undesirable aliens.

Further i know Al Shirazi advocated permenant marriage to temp.

[seyedmusawi]

salaam allaikum,

Fornicating woman...does this mean an ahlul kitab girl who may have had some relationships outside of marriage or does it mean a prostitute?

Lets not jump the gun here. To my understanding this means a christian girl who may have made a few mistakes in her life...
But where does this say prostitute?

Ali

[reza110]

salam
ali mohammad done a great job
u should be Appreciated
well done

[cocomoose@wawa]

whatever, if i had to chose one flaw in our religion its this. then again i truly doubt that this is what true islam is...

[alimohamad40]

Prostitute = Famous for zina

Prostitute Falls in the category of " Famous for zina"  

As far as the fiqh categorization is concerned There is no distinction between the case where she makes money or she doesn't as long as she is famous for zina then she is considered in the " famous for zina " Category under the fiqh.


Mustahab Precaution = Hallal because the precaution is not compulsory, ask your scholars if you don't believe me  


Undesired = Makrooh and Makrooh is clearly Hallal and Permissible just like Divorce or eating the meat of donkey or horse its makrooh but permissible

Edited by alimohamad40, 10 August 2007 - 09:07 PM.

[BintAlHoda]

anyhow, i've noticed no one has bothered to ask the reverse question.  does anyone know what the hukm is on marrying your sister to a (muslim) pimp?

[alimohamad40]

Quote

anyhow, i've noticed no one has bothered to ask the reverse question. does anyone know what the hukm is on marrying your sister to a (muslim) pimp?

under no circumstances

U see the man can marry ahlulkitab and monothiests but the woman can only marry Muslim

This is due to the dominating role of the man in the relationship and his leadership role
It all comes down to keeping and reserving your religion.
A man can use the bad woman, no harm done but a woman giving herself to a bad man will ruin her life and forcer her to evil

Edited by alimohamad40, 11 August 2007 - 06:05 AM.

[BintAlHoda]

alimohamad40, on Aug 11 2007, 06:04 AM, said:

under no circumstances

U see the man can marry ahlulkitab and monothiests but the woman can only marry Muslim

why not?  as long as the man is MUSLIM (read above).  his father is muslim and he admits "laa ilaaha illa Allah muhammadan rasul Allah".

Quote

A man can use the bad woman, no harm done but a woman giving herself to a bad man will ruin her life and forcer her to evil

then why did imam sadiq tell a man not to entrust his private parts to someone he would not trust his money with?

anyway, it is not "no harm"... our deeds show on our faces.  you can look at someone and know whether they have been chaste or not.  do you want people to look into your eyes and see that you have been with loose women?

is it "no harm" that loose women are more likely to have diseases, and a man contracts one?

is it "no harm" if a man learns to treat women as sex objects, rather than respectable human beings, and is unable to maintain a stable and happy marriage and appreciate his wife?

is it "no harm" if he is contributing to this sort of exploitation in society?

if it is "no harm", then why is prostitution illegal in almost every part of the world, including america?

Edited by BintAlHoda, 11 August 2007 - 12:59 PM.

[BintAlHoda]

Turkish_Shia, on Aug 11 2007, 05:12 AM, said:

are you sure about that ? "famous for zina" sounds more as someone who likes to do wicked stuff with guys and prostitutes sound more like people who are woman working to earn their money .
anyways i think the fatwa's are wrongly explained .

i think back in the day when these rules were explained, society was much more conservative, and people married a lot younger too, so you did not find a lot of "loose women" who did stuff for the fun of it.  either women were married and (mostly) loyal, or else they were widowed/abandoned, desperate to support themselves and their children, and resorted to this business.

[Co-wife (and happy about it!)]

Salaam Aleikum,

The rulings make sense to me because Islam, being the religion of logic and Allah (swt) being the most Merciful wants that Muslims never to have any need to turn to the great sins of fornication, homosexuality or masturbation, so there must be an option for men who become completely desperate. As quoted on another thread: “was it not imam 'ali  who said: had umar not prohibited this sort of marriage, only a few would have committed adultery?”

However what I derive from the combination of all the rulings is that this option should be the absolute last resort, a man should reasonably exhaust all other options first for finding a wife. I think if I were a Muslim male based on all the rulings I would want to avoid this type of marriage (with a lewd woman) unless I was on the absolute brink of haram, of course I’m not a Muslim male, so I don’t really know how it is from their viewpoint.

And I definitely think a man should keep in mind Islamic advice such as the Quranic passage: ‘Clean men for clean women’ and as Sister BintAlHoda mentioned imam sadiq   words “a man not to entrust his private parts to someone he would not trust his money with,”  when a man is selecting a wife. Perhaps the reference is to the fact that this woman could become the mother of the mans children and it’s important to try to give the children the best possible chance of future success, by making their mother someone you can trust.

But Islam is a religion of logic and a religion for all times. So this provision is necessary because there may be many instances where a man can not easily find a wife without paying her. Maybe no one will marry their daughter to him because he does not have a good enough qualification or enough financial assets, maybe its difficult to ask a Muslim lady to take temporary marriage with him because its not the social norm to ask this, maybe Ahl Kitab ladies are not interested in ‘dating’ him because he is not attractive enough or maybe he has some kind of sickness. There are so many possibilities that might lead a Muslim man to have to consider this if he can not find a wife another way, it is better he do this than fornication, masturbation or homosexuality. But I definitely think marrying a prostitute should be used as a last resort rather than taking the ruling as a license to go out and try as many women as one can (anyway I’m sure it’s a very minute percentage of Muslim men would actually use Mutah as justification for indulging in the ‘sport’ of women chasing without having a need or good reason to do so).    

As for a Muslim lady, I really don’t think it would be hard for her to find a temporary husband if she asked around. She would not face the same difficulty and desperation in securing a partner as a man would. I think it is more important the piety and akhlaq of the Muslim woman’s husband than the Muslim man’s wife, because a Muslim man has a lot of responsibilities to a Muslim woman that a drunkard or otherwise hypocrite Muslim man would not care to do for a Muslim wife. Such as: He has to financially support her (a dole bludger hypocrite husband would not bother about that) and she has to obey him, so it is important that he be a reasonable person motivated by good intentions, so she is not under constant pressure to do wrong (Also children usually more influenced by father). Also if he is a hypocrite Muslim then he is more likely to bash her or divorce her when he becomes tired of her, than if he is religious. Imagine if she had children with this kind of man and suddenly he decided to leave her and the children. This kind of experience would really hurt a woman, a woman needs a pious Muslim husband with good Akhlaq so she can feel taken care of and a sense of security.

Wassalam.