Zara28, on Aug 1 2007, 04:48 PM, said:
There is general ill-feeling towards Wahabis which is precisely why I said debating with them is not to be discouraged. I think I tried to emphasis this a few times now.
So, you are telling me that if a Sunni came up to you now and asked(not necessarily criticised) why you curse you would tell him/her to educate himself..am I to presume that you have no response to his query? This is what I mean by dogmatic. You have to be able to explain why we believe what we believe and not simply refer them all to Islam.org for example. We are supposed to be examples of following Ahlulbait and not just following hadeeth and traditions because some of us are born into it.
I have been watching the debate between yourself and sister spizo and am quite astounded at how you brought this into the debate to begin with? If you want to preach to her about how she should deal with sunnis/wahabis take a look at the sunni/shia forum and you will see she is already debating and informing them on a regular basis. Furthermore what does this have to do with the issue of cursing to begin with? How exactly did you manage to bring this completely irrelavant topic into this discussion?
The sister never once said if a sunni came up to her and asked her why we curse she would not give him answers. But if even the shia amongst us (taking you as an example) upon being shown proof from our own ahadith and books for the righteosness of our actions refuse to listen and are turning a blind eye to it, try imagining what a sunnis response would be.
I know about eye for an eye..that is a just law. A divine law, but that doesn't change the fact that compassion was shown towards the enemy. Tell me, how many of us would cry for our enemy and have pity on them..? How many of us would show concern if our oppressor was in discomfort? To use the term co-operation is a bit of an under-statement, wouldn't you say?! This takes a great character that can only be shown in prophets and Ahlalbait. This is the very reason why they are infallible.
You have made this claim several times in this debate, so i respectfully ask of you to bring proof of your claims that the ahlulbayte
showed compassion or care toward their enemies. The only correct thing you said is that they showed pity for them. But do you even understand what the word pity means?
It can only slightly be used to define the feelings of ahlulbayte
toward their enemies. They pity and feel sorry for their enemies because they see the truths of the world and know where their evils are going to take them. However when you look at the definition of compassion you get this:
1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
So i kindly ask of you to provide proof of instances where your claims have been shown by ahlulbayte
Can you prove that tabarra is not the cause of mass sectarian killings? True, it is mostly political rather than religious, but to state that it has no bearing on hatred towards Shia is a little adventurous considering the fact that many Sunnis see us as infidels anyway.
The sister has stated around 3 times before that no, tabbara is not a real reason for mass sectarian killings, i will quote her directly
"I said before and I repeat, Unity should not be at the cost of compromising our beliefs and Unity is not with the Sunnis/Wahhabis etc.. but with Islam. Only for the sake of Islam. I don't believe we can ever be united with other sects on ideological grounds but we can strive to unite on political or economical grounds just to live in harmony. Tabarra is unnecessarily being dragged into this issue. As I said before, it's just an excuse for the non-Shi'a to backstab us."
If you want to say that tabarra is causing disunity and unnecesarry mass killings, and this is a good enough reason for us to not do it then you are in a very dangerous situation my dear sister. We will NOT compromise our faith and beliefs in the name of "unity". Why? because it doesn't end here. We are already Widely considered kafirs, rafidis etc because of our believing in the wilayat of Ali
. Once we compromise our believe in tabarra in the name of unity, soon they will be attacking our believe in wilayat, and then we will have to compromise that too. Soon we can call ourselves sunni for the basis of our entire religion has been taken down.
Unity is not compromising of faith, unity is ACCEPTANCE of eachothers beliefs and being able to TOLERATE it without wanting to kill eachother. It is important you understand this!
You can hate someone, despise them with all your heart, but still not curse 100 times a day. If you choose to do so, that is your perogative. There is an element of cursing in Tawwasul(though obviously not to the same extent) and by doing that you are acknowledging they are loathed and what part they played in opprsessing the friends of God, I do this myself regularly, but not excessively. Rather, I like to learn about their characters and offer salutations onto them.
And nobody is saying for you to curse them 100 times a day. I personally, had i had time would do it much more than this, however i am sad to say i do not. What you are forcing yourself not to understand is that you can learn the characters of the ma'sumen and do tawassul and send salams AS WELL AS do tabarra and curse. There is tabarra AS WELL AS tawalla in furoo' al deen. They come together side by side. It is our duty to LOVE ahlulbayte and HATE their enemies.
As i said before, if you can hate without cursing then very good for you. But this does not give you a right to question the practice or preach it is not necesarry or not good because ahlulbayte
have said otherwise!
And sister, with all due respect it seems you are the one that keeps arguing and rearguing the same issues over and over again even after they have been answered to. With a healthy debate lies the ability to accept that you may be wrong, and leave it at that. Debating for the sake of debating is not healthy sister.
Please do not take this as an attack or insult and really think about what i have said.
Almuslim, on Aug 1 2007, 10:16 PM, said:
what kinof question is that, i can understand coming from a person named jihaad.... ur prolly sunnie and i guess we can forgive you for that evil kindof thinking that you were taught from birth
I do not understand why you would attack a brother because of an innocent question which he has all the right to ask (take a look at the debate being had in this thread). Jihad is as much a shia term as it is sunni, and we name jihad just as much as sunnis do so i dont understand the basis of your attack on this level, and asking a question was never haram, if you aren't able to answer it mannerly refrain from posting at all. You show less respect than what you seem to accuse "radical sunnis" of, and this is hypocritical behaviour even if you dont mean it to be so, so be careful of your words.