36 replies to this topic

[Rubaiyat]

Of course the Sunnite slogans about Shiism are part of a revisionist agenda which cannot be linked to Hanifa.

For one, Jafar Sadegh taught Shiite theology, this means he taught things like Mut'a but also Taqiyya in the presence of Hanifa. Mut'a would eventually be allowed but repackaged, another form of pleasure-marriage by Hanifa and his followers today by the names of Misyar (Persian Gulf) and Zawaj Orfi (North Africa)

We have to understand that Hanafites have more in common with Shiism than other sects in Islam and this is largely because Hanifa directly/indirectly educated the 3 other Imams on theology while he was directly a student of Sadegh (a).

[allah'sslave]

peac to who ever follows guidens i bear witness that that thers to god worthy of worship exept Allah and muhamed is his slave and massenger

And we love his family and all his wives the mothers of the belivers and we love the sahaba and the best of them Abo baker al-siddiq umar alkatab uthman ibn affan ali ibn abi talib may Allah be pleased whith them all and who ever has any thing in his heart aginst any of them then he has no place in this deen.

we have for the love which does not break the rulz of the oness of Allah nether the diobedions of the prophet nor divides this umma nor raises hatred between this umma and who ever does has no place in this deen

priorety is the oness of Allah our criteria is the quran and the sahih naration of the prophets doings and sayings which is the sunna i write this for all to ponder and ask the question that will put every thing in its place

That is what are the suunis calling to and what are the shia calling to i mean the main thing they calling to

lets start whith the shia and this is not the thought of indivdul persons but as a root of ther way.

1.wilaya to ahlulbayt and they are the most talked about in ther way even more then Allah and his massenger racodnishon of evil doing of the sahaba and the prophets wife

2.belive of the twelve imams and a love that goes against  the second part of the oness of Allah

3.neglecting of the quran and sunnah and not telling the diffrace between sahih hadeath and weak

4. First division of the umma and first fitna

5.asking others beside Allah like the dead whith that neglecting what the meaning of la ilaha ilalaah

6.hitting of the self ,walking every year in iraq to al-husayn (RAA) and expecting to be rewarded for somthing which was not instructed for us to do in this religion

7.practicing thing that they know the prophet did not approve of

8.using emotions as prove of some acts worship

MAIN CALL SHIRK AND BIDAA

Sunnis call to

1.The oness of Allah priorety and a criteria of all the religion
2.following the massenger and not inovating any thing in it matters
3.love of ahlul bayt whithout breaking a rule of the oness of Allah
4.loving the sahaba and not throwng weak lies at them
5.every worship be approved by rasoolul Allah othenticly
6.seek the help of the living on what they can do and never asking the dead
7.not giving the names or attributes of Allah to any one beside Allah
8.Every thing said concerning religion has to be othentic from quran and sunna

MAIN CALL TAWHEED AND ITEBAA

The oness of Allah and following the prophet is the most important thing to a true muslim

What is the first priorety and maine theme of a muslim's life that he is recodnized for is it

WILAYA OR TAWHEED starting whith tawheed will bring correct way of wilaya
Starting whith wilaya will bring wrong tawheed and thisbring wrong wilaya

in order not to make mistakes in the rights of the created you have to understand the rights of the creator

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Wr Wb

This isn't the place for such discussion Brother but I will respond here once and no more. If you would like to further discuss such issues please go to the Shi'a/Sunni dialogue forum.

My Allah [swt] guide us all to his hikmah.

Allah, on Mar 18 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

1.wilaya to ahlulbayt and they are the most talked about in ther way even more then Allah and his massenger racodnishon of evil doing of the sahaba and the prophets wife

Wilayat of Ahlulbayt [as] is talked about a whole lot because it is what many Muslims reject. Allah[swt] and his divine unity is above all else it is the very foundation of Islam: La Ilaha Ilallah.

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2.belive of the twelve imams and a love that goes against  the second part of the oness of Allah

What love goes against Allah[swt]'s oneness? We follow the 12 Imams on the order of Allah [swt] and his Prophet [saww].

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3.neglecting of the quran and sunnah and not telling the diffrace between sahih hadeath and weak

Actually, the Hadith of Thaqalayn is Kitaballah wa Itrati Ahlulbayti - Book of Allah [swt] (Quran) and My Progeny My Ahlulbayt. We do differentiate between Weak, Fabricated, Hasan and Sahih Hadith...but we're not all scholars and able to tell you ourselves. We have Ilm ul Hadith and Ilm ul Rijaal that is studied in our Hawzas.

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4. First division of the umma and first fitna

The Battle of Jamal? I don't see what you're pointing at.

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5.asking others beside Allah like the dead whith that neglecting what the meaning of la ilaha ilalaah

Tawassul! Tawassul! Ashadu La hawla wala quwata Illah billah al-'aliyuul adheem!
http://answering-ans...ul/en/index.php

http://www.minhajboo...p...txt&lang=en
http://www.minhajboo...p...txt&lang=en

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6.hitting of the self ,walking every year in iraq to al-husayn (RAA) and expecting to be rewarded for somthing which was not instructed for us to do in this religion

Matam is the arab way of Mourning and was practiced at the time of Rasulullah [saww]. The reward is for remembering the sacrifice of Imam al Husayn [as] and what Islam truly stands for.

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7.practicing thing that they know the prophet did not approve of

Bidd'ah is defined by Rasulullah [saww] as something new that goes against the principles of Islam.
http://www.answering...ah/en/chap1.php

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8.using emotions as prove of some acts worship

Not really.

No. We call to the unity of Tawheed of Allah [swt] and to his complete obedience and complete obedience to his Messenger [saww] and to his Ahlulbayt [as]. We call to Worship Allah [swt] alone and to love Allah [swt] as our creator, sustainer (the list is infinite), and to love Rasulullah [saww] and his pure Progeny [as].

Submission, completely, to Allah [swt].

Wasalaam Wr Wb

[Sijistani]

The belief of Sunnis is that Imam Abu Hanifa was a sunni scholar student of the greatest sunni scholar of his time Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq radiallahu anhu, learning the science of spiritual excellence from him

The Sunnis do not consider any of the ahl al-bayt as shi'a of any sort

According to the Sunnis, the Imams of the blessed pure Ahl al-bayt specialized in the greatest science of all, that of spiritual excellence

Even today, the ahl al-bayt are the holders of this science among the sunnis. The habaibs in yemen, the sayyids in morocco, mauritania, syria, hijaz, turkey, afghanistan, bukhara, egypt, libya, habaib of indonesia/malaysia to say the least

Its a legacy the sunni scholars are very proud of for having gained this knowledge

In sunni schools, you have to balance shari'a with haqiqa. The ahl al-bayt had shari'a, but only they had haqiqa. Imam Abu Hanifa had to go to Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, Imam Malik had to go to him

Throughout the ages, almost all sunni scholars have studied under the ahl al-bayt scholars in all of these regions, remote regions where the ahl al-bayt went to for safety and to spread Islam converting millions

[Noah-]

Abdul Hussain, on Dec 13 2003, 07:42 PM, said:

Since this week we are commemorating the death of the Imam (S), I would like us to discuss a few issues. Among them is the question that I get asked frequently by Sunnis and Shias: 'Since Abu Hanifa and Malik were both students of the Imam, why were they NOT Shia?' I find it easier to explain this to a Shia person because I could say: 'Since Abu Bakr knew that Ali was the Imam, why didn't he follow him?' but I can't use this example to explain to a Sunni. So, perhaps we could have a few comments on why those two did not follow the Imam (S), even though they studied under him?

Then, what was Abu Hanifa if he wasn't a Shia? What was the bases of Shiism and Sunnism in his time?
It is simple and clear that he followed Imam Jahfar Sadiq and was one of them.

It was years later where by law they wanted to validate a few schools, where they picked Abu Hanifa's works and edited and then labeled it as Hanafi school of taught. Plus 3 other persons' the same way. 100s of them were preaching the same way as those 4, that is why it was asked officially to recognize a few, and ignore all others......
study how 4 Sunni school of taught came into existence.. most of the things will be clear.. today's Sunnis and their collections of hadiths went way to wrong directions than those Sunni Imams who were practicing Islam in their times.

[nazish.awan]

Abdul Hussain, on Dec 13 2003, 09:42 PM, said:

Since this week we are commemorating the death of the Imam (S), I would like us to discuss a few issues. Among them is the question that I get asked frequently by Sunnis and Shias: 'Since Abu Hanifa and Malik were both students of the Imam, why were they NOT Shia?' I find it easier to explain this to a Shia person because I could say: 'Since Abu Bakr knew that Ali was the Imam, why didn't he follow him?' but I can't use this example to explain to a Sunni. So, perhaps we could have a few comments on why those two did not follow the Imam (S), even though they studied under him?

[Zen]

Abu Hanafi was a "learned man".  He was no different then Professors at University's.

[zidane_]

He loved Ahl al Bayt and was even imprisoned, tortured and killed for standing up for it. but he was not Creedance Shia  , which is what shiasm is today, so as of todays standards, he was not shia but supported Ahl al Bayt.

[Al-Zaidi]

Abdul Hussain, on 13 December 2003 - 09:42 PM, said:

Since this week we are commemorating the death of the Imam (S), I would like us to discuss a few issues. Among them is the question that I get asked frequently by Sunnis and Shias: 'Since Abu Hanifa and Malik were both students of the Imam, why were they NOT Shia?' I find it easier to explain this to a Shia person because I could say: 'Since Abu Bakr knew that Ali was the Imam, why didn't he follow him?' but I can't use this example to explain to a Sunni. So, perhaps we could have a few comments on why those two did not follow the Imam (S), even though they studied under him?

He was a Zaydi Shia not an Imami Shia.  He was more influenced by Zayd ibn Ali then his nephew Jafar and declared support for Zayd Ibn Ali and later Zaydi Imams.  Read up on Abu Hanifa.  You should retitle this thread as "why was he not an Imami Shia".  If you don't have time to read up then I am sure you can find some videos on you tube about him and I know Ammar Nakhshawani talks about Abu Hanifa as a Zaydi Shia in his lecture on Zayd ibn Ali.

[Ali_Hussain]

Every thing is recognized by means of its attributes and effects; sagaciousness and intelligence of a person become manifest by means of his words and deeds.

Behlool (d. 190 ah), despite the fact that his father was the uncle of Haroon al-Rashid, exhibited himself as a lunatic in order to abstain himself from accepting the post of judge and issuing the death sentence for the seventh Imam (a.s).

One of the most evident examples of his ration and intellect was the incident of his entry into the class of Abu Hanifah - one of the Sunnite leaders.

Once, as he happened to pass by the class Abu Hanifah, he heard him say: “Jafar Ibn Muhammad (a.s) has said to his students three things, which I do not approve of.

He (a.s) has said: “Satan shall be chastised in the fire of Hell.” But how can he be punished by means of fire when he has himself been created out of fire?

He (a.s) also says: “Allah cannot be seen”, whereas every entity can be perceived by means of vision.

He (a.s) also says: “Man, in performing his actions, is free and has a choice”, whereas, in reality, Allah is the Creator and His servants have no discretion and freedom.

Having heard this from Abu Hanifah, Behlool picked up a clod of earth and hit him on the head, injuring him and prompting lamentations from him.

His students rushed towards Behlool and seizing him, presented him before the caliph.

Abu Hanifah said to the caliph: “Behlool has struck me with a clod of earth and injured me.”

Behlool retorted: “If he speaks the truth ask him to show the pain.”

Then turning to Abu Hanifah, he said: “Have you not been created from earth? How then can earth harm and injure you? (Besides) What wrong have I done? Are you yourself not of the opinion that it is Allah, who performs all the acts and deeds, and man has no discretion and freedom? Thus, you should register a complaint against Allah and not against me.”

Abu Hanifah, having received the answers to his objections, withdrew his complaint and went his way.”


Shagirdan-e-Maktab-e-Aimmah, pg. 262; Qamus al-Rijal, vol. 2, pg. 252
http://www.al-islam....lection-part-3/

[wikipedia]

i always wonder why there is so much difference in the fiqh of imam zaid and imam jaffar?