52 replies to this topic

[El-hage]

It is because rabbit is one of the animals into which some of the disobedient mankind have been TRANSFORMED.  In Arabic, the animal into which transformation has occurred is known as MANSOOKH. And to eat Mansookh animal is Haram

that is what my marja3 e-mailed me back, i am still confused, can someone please explain
thanks
Hussein

[rida zahra]

what about ducks? r they halal?

[El-hage]

from my knowlegde ducks are halal

Edited by El-hage, 07 November 2003 - 03:37 PM.

[Ali]

El-hage, on Nov 7 2003, 03:36 PM, said:

from my knowlegde ducks are halal

They better be, lol

[Gypsy]

El-hage, on Nov 7 2003, 08:36 PM, said:

from my knowlegde ducks are halal

Are you sure??

They have webbed foot ...

[rahat]

ive been to muslim restauarants that serve them as halal ...

-
rahat

[El-hage]

can we get back to out original post and help me find out what my marja3 was talking about
thanks
Hussein

[jlainqatar]

Selam alaycom,

I've heard they are haram because they menstruate, like cats. In the Quran it says people have been transformed into monkeys and pigs, but I don't recall rabbits. Ducks are halal.

Peace,
Um Ali

[Mystere]

I can't believe you people.  Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

[Abdul Hussain]

Quote

that is what my marja3 e-mailed me back, i am still confused, can someone please explain

Yes, I have heard if there is evidence to say that Allah (SWT) transformed certain evil-doers into an animal out of punishment, then that would provide evidence as to the meat of that animal becoming haram. This is used in istidlal (deduction) by the Maraji' to issue a ruling to say that particular meat is haram. For more info I suggest you email the Marji' in question again and ask him to clarify the issue of mansookh meat.

Quote

I can't believe you people. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

That was an extremely rude comment, made further rude by the fact you have not given any reasons for such an arrogant outburst. Would you care to enlighten us, in more respectful tones, as why you think this of the people maturely asking and discussing jurisprudential questions?


ws

[Peer]

El-hage, on Nov 7 2003, 08:25 PM, said:

It is because rabbit is one of the animals into which some of the disobedient mankind have been TRANSFORMED.  In Arabic, the animal into which transformation has occurred is known as MANSOOKH. And to eat Mansookh animal is Haram

that is what my marja3 e-mailed me back, i am still confused, can someone please explain
thanks
Hussein

??

Do we Muslims also believe in this??   [I thought it was only a Hindu/Buddhist belief]

Wa'Salam
Ali

[Hajar]

El-hage, on Nov 7 2003, 09:17 PM, said:

can we get back to out original post and help me find out what my marja3 was talking about
thanks
Hussein

Salaam alaikum,

What he is saying is that some evil humans have been changed into animals, by Allah.  The particular animal species that those humans were changed into, are haraam to eat. For example in this case, some evil people were turned into rabbits.  So rabbits are haraam to eat because, at one time, some evil people were turned into rabbits.

I've seen hadiths that say this before.  I can't find one now, but I'll keep looking.  From what I recall, the hadiths give a list of animal species that evil people were turned into.  And they say we can't eat those species of animals.

Now this is not to say that the rabbits we see today, are the decendants of those people, who were turned into rabbits.  When people have been turned into animals, they didn't reproduce.  They just lived the rest of their lives as animals and then died.

WaSalaam, Hajar

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

ROTFL

Rabbits are haram to eat  because they don't have HOOVES.

Cows and sheep and camels and deer have hooves, they're halal to eat. Pigs have hooves, but they were specifically made haram. Donkeys also have hooves, but they have also been made haram i believe in hadith, like wise horses made makrooh.

ws

[Hajar]

Salaam alaikum,

Do you understand that you are laughing at hadiths from our Imams(as) and the explanation of a mujtahid?  

BTW, donkeys are makrooh.

WaSalaam, Hajar

[Peer]

Reason why Rabbits are haram:

Allah (swt) has declared it haram to eat the meat of rabbit because it resembles cat and its claws also resemble (the claws) of cats and in it, along with the resemblance of cats and other beats, the symptons of impurity of blood are found- It also menstruate like the women because it is the destroyed one(2).

Ref: 3ayun-e-Akhbar-ir-Ridha , by Shaykh al-Sadooq (ar), vol. II, page# 203.


(2) destroyed one is not really a good translation, but I dont know what would be its exact translation.. anyways its near.

-The translation is my own and I have tried my best to translate it word-to-word but there is a chance of error, so please if you find anything odd, do ask me.

Thankyou

Wa'Salam
Ali

Edited by Peer Syed Sahib, 08 November 2003 - 01:38 AM.

[Gypsy]

There are 2 reason why rabbit are haram

1) Something about female rabbit menstruate
2) They eat their own dropping

Why is duck halal? They have webbed feet..

[Hajar]

Peer Syed Sahib, on Nov 8 2003, 04:37 AM, said:

Reason why Rabbits are haram:

Allah (swt) has declared it haram to eat the meat of rabbit because it resembles cat and its claws also resemble (the claws) of cats and in it, along with the resemblance of cats and other beats, the symptons of impurity of blood are found- It also menstruate like the women because it is the destroyed one(2).

Ref: 3ayun-e-Akhbar-ir-Ridha , by Shaykh al-Sadooq (ar), vol. II, page# 203.


(2) destroyed one is not really a good translation, but I dont know what would be its exact translation.. anyways its near.

-The translation is my own and I have tried my best to translate it word-to-word but there is a chance of error, so please if you find anything odd, do ask me.

Thankyou

Wa'Salam
Ali

Salaam alaikum,

The problem I have with this hadith, is that rabbits don't menstruate, like women.  Only human females, apes, and some monkeys menstruate.  Other mammals can have some bleeding during ovulation, but this is not the same as menstruation in women.   Menstruation in women and primates occurs, after ovulation, when the ovum isn't fertilized.   I have to wonder why one of the Imams would say that they menstruate, when they don't.

WaSalaam, Hajar

[Hajar]

Zareen, on Nov 8 2003, 04:40 AM, said:

There are 2 reason why rabbit are haram

1) Something about female rabbit menstruate
2) They eat their own dropping

Why is duck halal? They have webbed feet..

Quote

Why is duck halal? They have webbed feet..

Salaam alaikum,

There isn't anything that says you can't eat birds with webbed feet.  

2633. * All birds, like eagle, vultures and wild falcons having a claw and talon, are haraam to eat. And all such birds whose gliding is more than flapping the wings, and have talons, are also haraam to eat. Those whose flapping of the wings while flying, is more than gliding, are halal to eat. Thus, one can identify halal birds from haraam ones by observing how they fly. And if the style of any bird's flight cannot be determined, that bird will be considered halal for eating, if it has a crop or a gizzard or a spur on the back of its feet. In the absence of all these, the bird will be haraam. As an obligatory precaution, one should refrain from eating the meat of all types of crows. Other birds like the hens, the pigeons, the sparrows including the ostrich and the peacock are halal to eat, but it is Makrooh to kill birds like swallows and hoopoes. And the animals which fly, but are not classified as winged birds, like the bats, are haraam; similarly, the bees, the mosquitoes, and other flying insects are, as an obligatory precaution, haraam.

WaSalaam, Hajar

[Peer]

Hajar, on Nov 8 2003, 07:10 AM, said:

Peer Syed Sahib, on Nov 8 2003, 04:37 AM, said:

Reason why Rabbits are haram:

Allah (swt) has declared it haram to eat the meat of rabbit because it resembles cat and its claws also resemble (the claws) of cats and in it, along with the resemblance of cats and other beats, the symptons of impurity of blood are found- It also menstruate like the women because it is the destroyed one(2).

Ref: 3ayun-e-Akhbar-ir-Ridha , by Shaykh al-Sadooq (ar), vol. II, page# 203.


(2) destroyed one is not really a good translation, but I dont know what would be its exact translation.. anyways its near.

-The translation is my own and I have tried my best to translate it word-to-word but there is a chance of error, so please if you find anything odd, do ask me.

Thankyou

Wa'Salam
Ali

Salaam alaikum,

The problem I have with this hadith, is that rabbits don't menstruate, like women.  Only human females, apes, and some monkeys menstruate.  Other mammals can have some bleeding during ovulation, but this is not the same as menstruation in women.   Menstruation in women and primates occurs, after ovulation, when the ovum isn't fertilized.   I have to wonder why one of the Imams would say that they menstruate, when they don't.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Aslamo 3alikum,

Actually I translated it bit wrongly, I thought it would be same..

It says: it also bleeds on monthly basis like women.

Wa'Salam
Ali

Edited by Peer Syed Sahib, 08 November 2003 - 02:27 AM.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Hajar, on Nov 8 2003, 06:11 AM, said:

Do you understand that you are laughing at hadiths from our Imams(as) and the explanation of a mujtahid?

How u know what i was laughing at sis???

http://www.al-shia.c...decisions-1.htm

Quote

( B )  Land creatures.
This term covers all creatures that move on the face of the earth. For  various  reasons, which cannot be gone into here, the Shari'a permits some to be eaten and forbids others. God  Almighty  says;

"O you who believe, keep  to  your  covenants.   You are allowed to eat grazing animals except those that are recited to you". (al-Ma 'ida, 1)  In the same sura (3) the Al-mighty says; 'It is forbidden for you  [to eat] al-Mayta   (dead creatures without dhakaar),  blood, meat of the pig and what has been dedicated to anyone but God ".  In the following ayah   we read:  " they ask you what is permitted for you.  Say, the good things are permitted ( for you ) and [also] that which the (most suitable)  predatory beasts  and  birds  of prey you have taught to hunt,  having  trained them. You teach them of what God has taught you,  so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of God upon it and fear God. God is indeed a swift reckoner".

The jurists  (the fuquha')  have  general principles derived from the Holy Qur'an and the pure Sunna and on that  basis  determine what can be eaten from among  domestic animals, namely camels, cows, sheep and goats - which all possess a hoof or cloven hoof. From among wild animals,  by  which  is meant animals which neither  live  in  enclosures nor are reared by humans, are permitted mountain sheep, wild cows and asses, gazelles and deer. Sayyed al-Khoei does not consider it unlikely that, in fact, permissibility extends beyond these five categories. Although the jurists are unanimous that it is permissable to eat the meat of horses, mules and donkeys some see, however, an aversion (karaaha) in the eating of such meat.
Creatures that are not permissable to be eaten are all those which possess canine teeth or  fangs such as lions, foxes, cats, dogs, rabbits, lizards, jerboas, elephants and monkeys. Likewise, it  is not permissable to eat reptiles, such as snakes and tortoises, and insects, such as lice, chinches ( bed-bugs ) and fleas but locusts, on the supposition that they are not to be classified as insects, are,   however,  permissable.

ws

[Hajar]

Salaam alaikum,

Can't there be a reason behind it?  

WaSalaam, Hajar

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Hajar, on Nov 8 2003, 04:14 PM, said:

Can't there be a reason behind it?

  


of course there's a reason. we just don't know it. just like many things. could u tell me why fish without scales (although many don't hunt or eat meat) and other sea creatures, e.g. muscles, are haram??? Maybe because scales have a purpose to protect fish from impurities, similarly hoofs have a similar role???

Allahu a3lam.

We just should keep searching for the answer

ws

[Hajar]

Ya Aba 3abdillah, on Nov 8 2003, 02:35 PM, said:

of course there's a reason. we just don't know it. just like many things. could u tell me why fish without scales (although many don't hunt or eat meat) and other sea creatures, e.g. muscles, are haram??? Maybe because scales have a purpose to protect fish from impurities, similarly hoofs have a similar role???

Allahu a3lam.

We just should keep searching for the answer

ws

Salaam alaikum,

I think that these hadiths are explaining, why certain non hooved animals can't be eaten.

WaSalaam, Hajar

[talvaar786]

Yaa Ali Madad

Quote

It is because rabbit is one of the animals into which some of the disobedient mankind have been TRANSFORMED. In Arabic, the animal into which transformation has occurred is known as MANSOOKH. And to eat Mansookh animal is Haram

that is what my marja3 e-mailed me back, i am still confused, can someone please explain

If eating a rabbit is certainly haraam then why has Agha Dr Sadeq Tehrani made it halaal ? Does a scholar have the authority to make things halaal as haraam and vice-versa ?

Yaa Ali Madad

[Abdul Hussain]

Please provide evidence for your statement. If this person is not a mujtahid, then he does not have the authority to make this ruling.


ws