155 replies to this topic

[shabbir.hassanally]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

I would like to point out the following to our brother Ya Zahra.

Now do you understand why I say you are creating FITNEH?

Quote

Q 64: What is our duty toward those who think that the authority of the virtuous Supreme Jurist Leader is restricted only to personal affairs, given that some of their representatives propagate their belief?

A: The authority of the Supreme Jurist Leader in the realm of the leadership of the society and governance of social affairs in all periods is one of the fundamental beliefs of the true Twelve Imam Shi 'a creed; as its roots are founded in the principle of Imamate. Whoever is led by reasoning not to accept this notion is excused, but it is not permissible for him to spread disunity and discord.

I rest my case.

On a related note, the offer of giving you the book Islamic Government by Imam Khumayni(A) and the meal in London are still open - especially to you Ya Zahra, and to anyone else who is interested.  Just PM me.

Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir



Edited By Ya Aba 3abdillah on 1034167888

[Orion]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

Quote

Does this therefore mean that the representation is a collective or individual entity? In addition does this mean that by everyone chosing their Muqallid, that they have chosen who represents the Imam (AJ) from their own behalf? This from my understanding is the system of Marji3iya, what then of Wilayah, through narration of Quran/Ahlulbayt(as)?

YA ZAHRA,

Salam o Alekum,

To me this issue is very simple. Our Masoom Imam (ATF) is the final authority. He is not in front of us. So in his occultation the eminent Maraje karam are his representative for us. If we have a problem we should go to them.

Taqleed

Naturally I would like to go to the one most suitable and qualified Maraje in "personal matters". This does not mean that other Marje are not his representatives. But it is logical for me to approach someone who I find (after research) to be the best among all. Now this person could be the Waley al-Faqih himself or someone else.

Wilayah (Leadership)

The issue of "Wilayah" is a little different. There is only one Waley al-Faqih (the ideal way it should be). He was appointed by an elected body of high ranking Ulema (Majlis e Khubargan) after they found that he has all the necessary qualites needed for Leadership, like being a just ['adil] and pious [muttaqi] faqih (Mujtahid) , who is fully aware of the circumstances of his age; courageous, resourceful, and possessed of administrative ability). It is logical for everyone to approach and follow him in issues relating to the administration of the Islamic country and general affairs of the Muslims. We should wish and pray to Allah that the Leader soon hands over these responcibilites to our Imam (ATF) himself.

This is how I understand it.

We should be thankfull to Allah that he has given us so many pious Maraje at one time and also He has blessed us with an Islamic State and a pious Leader.

May Allah hasten the arrival of our IMAM (ATF).

Khuda Hafiz.



Edited By Orion on 1034090400

[Renaissance_Man]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]

Those wishing to read "Hukumat-i-Islami" (Islamic Government) by Imam Khomeini (SA) can check it out at:

http://khomeini.hype...umat/index.html

an excerpt:

[i:post_uid1]"...If a worthy individual possessing these two qualities arises
and establishes a government, he will possess the same authority
as the Most Noble Messenger (upon whom be peace and blessings)
in the administration of society, and it will be the duty of all peo-
ple to obey him.

The idea that the governmental powers of the Most Noble
Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) were greater than
those of the Commander of the Faithful (upon whom be peace), or
that those of the Commander of the Faithful were greater than
those of the faqih, is false and erroneous. Naturally, the virtues
of the Most Noble Messenger were greater than those of the rest of
mankind, and after him, the Commander of the Faithful was the
most virtuous person in the world. But superiority with respect
to spiritual virtues does not confer increased governmental pow-
ers. God has conferred upon government in the present age the
same powers and authority that were held by the Most Noble
Messenger and the Imams (peace be upon them) with respect to
equipping and mobilizing armies, appointing governors and
officials, and levying taxes and expending them for the welfare
of the Muslims. Now, however, it is no longer a question of a par
ticular person; government devolves instead upon one who pos-
sesses the qualities of knowledge and justice.

When we say that after the Occultation, the just faqih has the
same authority that the Most Noble Messenger and the Imams had,
do not imagine that the status of the faqih is identical to that of
the Imams and the Prophet. For here we are not speaking of status,
but rather of function. By "authority" we mean government, the
administration of the country, and the implementation of the
sacred laws of the shari'a. These constitute a serious, difficult duty
but do not earn anyone extraordinary status or raise him above
the level of common humanity. In other words, authority here
has the meaning of government, administration, and execution
of law; contrary to what many people believe, it is not a privilege
but a grave responsibility. The governance of the faqih is a ra-
tional and extrinsic [62] matter; it exists only as a type of appoint-
ment, like the appointment of a guardian for a minor. With respect
to duty and position, there is indeed no difference between the
guardian of a nation and the guardian of a minor. It is as if the
Imam were to appoint someone to the guardianship of a minor,
to the governorship of a province, or to some other post. In cases
like these, it is not reasonable that there would be a difference
between the Prophet and the Imams, on the one hand, and the
just faqih, on the other.

For example, one of the concerns that thefaqih must attend to
is the application of the penal provisions of Islam. Can there be
any distinction in this respect between the Most Noble Messenger,
the Imam, and the faqih? Will the faqih inflict fewer lashes be-
cause his rank is lower! Now the penalty for the fornicator is one
hundred lashes. If the Prophet applies the penalty, is he to inflict
one hundred fifty lashes, the Commander of the Faithful one
hundred, and the faqih fifty! The ruler supervises the executive
power and has the duty of implementing God's laws; it makes no
difference if he is the Most Noble Messenger, the Commander of
the Faithful or the representative or judge he appointed to Basra
or Kufa, or a faqih in the present age.

Another of the concerns of the Most Noble Messenger· and the
Commander of the Faithful was the levying of taxes-khums,
zakat, iizya, and kharaj on taxable lands. Now when the Prophet
levied znkal, how much did he levy? One-tenth in one place and
one-twentieth elsewhere! And how did the Commander of the
Faithful proceed when he became ruler! And what now, if one of
us becomes the foremost faqih of the age and is able to enforce
his authority! In these matters, can there be any difference in the
authority of the Most Noble Messenger, that of 'All, and that of
the faqih? God Almighty appointed the Prophet in authority
over all the Muslims; as long as he was alive, his authority ex-
tended over even 'All. Afterwards, the Imam had authority over
all the Muslims, even his own successor as Imam; his commands
relating to government were valid for everyone, and he could
appoint and dismiss judges and governors.

The authority that the Prophet and the Imam had in estab-
lishing a government, executing laws, and administering affairs
exists also for the faqih. But the fuqaha do not have absolute au-
thority in the sense of having authority over all other fuqaha of
their own time, being able to appoint or dismiss them. There is no
hierarchy ranking one faqih higher than another or endowing one
with more authority than another. ..."[/i:post_uid1]

[sag_IMAM-REZA]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]salam alaikom

i know exactly what brother soc is talking about, its sad and for me scary times, i dont want to see it happen but it might have to. most of you wont understand what im talking about so i guess this is only for socrates.
i disagree with you on the rest of what your saying. you have to put your emotions aside,be fair&                      ---------Realistic!!!
wasalam

[sag_IMAM-REZA]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]i understand, thts why i kinda agree with you on the first part of what you said and about what khatami wants to do, i dont garee but it might have to be done, about the rest
farsi meegam chonkeh inja bache zeeyad hast,
IMAM(mAAabpwH) Khodesh as hameh beeshtar adam khoshd, oon hagheegat hast! ta yeck ja meesheh akhoondeh kharo kosht, mardomo gom nakonan. wa man poshtesh hastam ama nemeesheh --Hamaro-- kosht, chonkeh keshvar nemeemoneh. baryeh hameen hata ke nemeekham poshteh raees jomhorram hastam.
ws

[Ehsan]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah wha Salam!
It is kinda hard to jump into the middle of a discussion here but I'll try so I get involved so we can settle this once and for all.

Could somebody just make a fast post on how the discussion has developed and what is discussed now. I read all the 6 pages but I lost it somewhere, just a quick reference so we insh'Allah can settle this matter soon.  

[Ya Mahdi Adrekni]

[quote][color=#000000:post_uid0]Salam Karbala,

You don't know what you're talking about.  Just because you went there for a visit and saw some people living to what you call "pleasantly" doesn't mean that's how it is for everybody.  Neither does it mean that is how it is for those people who appear to be living "pleasantly".

You are terribly wrong, a lot of people are living a hard life.  It is very hard to make a living down there, a lot of people are struggling.  

Shoorideh nabash,

salamat agha

[AlGhaalib]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]bismillah

Quote

When I said 'attack' I meant physical attack. If you jail people for criticizng things, that system is useless, because its foundation is so weak that it cannot even take criticism. A godly system can take any criticism and refute it.

sorry socrates, but you are not 100% correct in the above quotation. 'Absolute freedom of speech' is not permissable, esspecially when it comes to the critisism of Islam, the Ma'soomeen, or an Islamic government.

that is why the Hukm of Ayatullah Khomeini came down upon Salmaan Rushdi, the cursed.

Total freedom of speech is a western concept as their human rights system centres around the sacred life of the individual and his/her comfort. Islamic human rights revolves around the pleasure of Allah alone.

[AlShe3eyah]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]

Quote

Salaams

I would like to point out the following to our brother S (who doesn't like his name being used - I wonder why? so I'll call him "Ya Zahra" also).

Thats low shabbir ... very low ....

Ur exposing a persons name on a forum , in other words , causing ur own little "gossip" .... its best if u edit that out  :nono:

Wa Salam



Edited By AlShe3eyah on 1034112651

[Jondab-Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim


Salaam Aleikum,

Aparently, someone here believes that you should only take away a person's liberties if they conspire to "physically attack" you.

Good point.

But let me say this, hasn't the Islamic Republic been under physical attack since day one? Remember the martyrdom of the seventy-two (including Shaheed Beheshti, Bahonar, and Rajai)? Remember the attack that took away the right arm of our beloved Leader, Imam Khamenei?

In fact, there have been too many attacks to mention, many against our Ulema, and they don't generally distinguise between Revolutionary Mullahs and non-Revolutionary Mullahs, they want ALL Mullahs DEAD. I hope you understand this when you make your inane comments against the Islamic Republic's RIGHT to defend itself. Yes, it has a RIGHT to defend against those who CONSPIRE with those who are ENEMIES OF Allah to KILL our ULEMA. Please think before you speak in future. Thankyou.

Anyone still doubting the permissibility of the Believers defending themselves through means of counter-intelligence, surveillance, and ultimately assasination of the Enemies of Allah, then please refer to the history books. Our Prophet (S) had enemies in Medina -operatives working for the Jewish tribes, for example. They were watched, their movements were monitored, and ultimately some of them "dissapeared". Were they not "political opponents" of the Prophet (S)? Are we not working from [b:post_uid0]his[/b:post_uid0] example?

Quote

The Jews who lived in Madina itself or in its suburbs met the fate they deserved on account of their noxious activities. A group of theirs was put to death, and others like the tribes of Bani Qaynuqa' and Bani Nuzayr were expelled from Madina, and they settled in Khayber and Wadiul Qura'.

Source

This justifies the slaying of the anti-Revolutionary elements within Iran at the time of Revolution. But as you can see, most ran away to the Greater Satan or other places...

Quote

...he also concluded another pact with the Jews of Madina. It was endorsed generally by different groups of the Jews. It was agreed that if they did any harm to the Prophet or to his companions or supplied arms or animals of riding to their enemies the Prophet would be free to execute them confiscate their property and captivate their women and children.

Source

So the Communists, Shah people, etc, were given rights to stay in Iran after the Revolution, so long as they didn't conspire against the Muslims. So what did they do?

Quote

The agreement was, however, violated and ignored by all groups of the Jews in different ways. Bani Qaynuqa killed a Muslim. Bani Nuzayr plotted to kill the Prophet and he, therefore, compelled them to leave their country and go out of the zone of the Muslims. As regards Bani Qurayzah, they co-operated wholeheartedly with the army of the Arabs to harm Islam.

I rest my case. Besides, it's better for us NOT to expel them, since they only gain more power in the West and serve to undermine us.

Quote

The greatest crime committed by the Jews of Khaybar was that they instigated all the Arab tribes to destroy the State of Islam, and with their financial support the army of polytheism marched from different places in Arabia and reached the very walls of Madina.

Source

What do the Jews do today? They use their FINANCIAL strength to support the infidel armies and those who wish to destroy our State.

Quote

The Jews of Bani Qaynqa' tribe, who lived in Madina and controlled the economy of the city, were more afraid than others, ... [and] the tribe of Qaynqa' became more active than others and started the cold war of propaganda by spreading biting slogans and slanderous verses.

Source

Jews, Christians, Muslims: It makes no difference. The fight is the same. It that of Belief versus Disbelief and Hypocrisy. Salman Rushdie claimed to be a Muslim, but was he? We all know the answer! So why do you still bleet when certain rogue elements are dealt with in accordance with the Sunnah of the Prophet (S)?

Bottom line is this: You are either with the Just government, the government of the Believers. Or are you disputing the Just nature of our Honoured government? Are you doubting the Belief and Strength of Hizbullah? Are you calling Basij stupid?

Think about this please, brother.

Wasalaam,


Jondab-Ali

[Jondab-Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim


Salaam Aleikum Socrates,

Apparently, you cannot answer my argument because alledgedly I'm "talking about too many subjects at a time" and I "might have missed the point of our discussion". Well, my friend, I'd like to disagree at this point.
Have I really "missed the point" when I see someone like yourself slandering our government? Have I really missed the point when I see the Enemies of Islam slandering Our Leader?

My post dealt with legitimate methods of defence of the Islamic Government. But the fact that you compare the Islamic Government to other "muslim" governments really proves your angle to everyone.

So, Mr. Socrates, Western Philosopher (enemy of Allah) wannabe, tell me why you are comparing the Supreme Leader of the Muslim Ummah to King Fahd, or Mr. Musharraf, or Saddam, perhaps? Tell me what heinous crime Imam Khamenei has committed to incur your wrath against the Islamic Government.

You being an Iranian traitor should be ashamed, you have an Islamic Government and yet you CHOOSE to reject it. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Socrates rejected God, did he not? It all makes perfect sense now...

So you could not respond to my post. If you cannot agree or try to refute such simple concepts as "Belief versus Disbelief", then why are you even bothering to get involved in this discussion? Quite frankly, you've proven that you're not at a level whereby you can judge the Islamic Government as equal to other "muslim" governments, as you put it. You're not even at a level whereby you can understand simple concepts, so go away and read some books before you start spouting rubbish on these boards and creating Fitnah.

I suggest you try these links to start your research:

islamicdigest.net

al-Islam

al-Shia

I hope these help. But I warn you to cease and desist until you have the knowledge AND understanding to back up what you are saying.

Wasalaam,


Jondab-Ali

[Orion]

[quote][color=#000000:post_uid0]..and there are no 'islamic' governments today, there are muslim governments of which the islamic republic is one.

[Orion]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Here is a discussion between two Sunnis about Iran from another board:
-----------------

Quote

[b:post_uid0]Are you seriously trying to defend this regime![/b:post_uid0]

I think if there is any muslim country in  the word that needs defending then thats is the Islamic Republic of Iran because that  is the th eonly muslim country that is truely independed and free regardless of what you say

[b:post_uid0]Dhaka city centre looks just as modern as Tehran!!![/b:post_uid0]

what the hell are you talkign about, Dhaka is the most disguisting and dirty city that i have ever seen in my life,its my city but iam not ashmaed to say the truth about it, it bloody stinks!

[b:post_uid0]Please understand that I have nothing against shia peoples. [/b:post_uid0]

O Right! Really? But you have somehting against Islam it self!

[b:post_uid0]However, Iran like Afghanistan and Sudan is a failed "Islamic' state. Only valuable in showing the next generation of Muslims the 'dont's' of setting up an Islamic state.[/b:post_uid0]

you are from the very beggining have been against islam so there is no point talkign about shia or sunni issues that does not apply to some one who hardly belives in islam and is against its establishment.

Iran has done a great job so far despite the western backed 8 year war Iraq imposed on Iran and the sanctions every since its creation....it has come a long way in all feilds, science and technology, commerce, militaraly, economically, diplomatically even the Saudis have started to realise that their US is not their true friend but it is the Islamic Iran, that is why today in if you go to Hajj you will see that the Iranians/shias are treated with great respect where as in the past they used to kill them in Hajj

[b:post_uid0]For instance the Mullahs don't allow transparancy in accounting state budgets. Wonder why not?
I bet a fair amount of taxes ends up in the Mullahs personal accounts in Switzerlan is why. [/b:post_uid0]

The ulemas or clergy of iran are independed of the government, they need no ones taxes and your allegations are probably based on american media anyway!

[b:post_uid0]this also happens in many Sunni secular systems.[/b:post_uid0]  

this not only happens in the sunni secular country but the leader of all corruption is America itself, you only need to look at Enron, the amount stolen from  the people in Eron is so massive that its probably more than all the rest of the worlds counrties put toghether, and the top circles of Enron who did it are all linked to the governement of USA.

[b:post_uid0]If Iran were a Islamic 'utopia'wouldn't the shia of Iraq go there. Instead they follow the Baathists. [/b:post_uid0]

Where people want to go is their choice and in anycase Saddam is such a butcherer he has killed shias in their tens of Thousands as well as the sunnis, so this is probably due to fear for peoples lives but in anycase there is an ongoing revolt the result of which is yet to be seen!

[b:post_uid0]Instead they fought fanatically against Iran when IRAN was winning the war ie. closing in on Basra.[/b:post_uid0]

thats probably true thats why i said just becasue one is a shia does not mean they will side with another shia.  You need to learn histroy, when Imam Ali was  the Rightly guided Chaliph, Muawiya who was also apparently a Muslim declared war on Ali and in the war thousand of muslims were slaughtered, both were muslims so why did not they start hugging each other?

[b:post_uid0]Also why do your mullahs think  women are physically, intellectually and morally inferior to men. Men are granted the power to make all family decisions, including the movement of women and custody of the children (even if father is a peodephile). ‘Your wife, who is your possession, is in fact, your slave,’ is the mullah’s legal view. (Contrary to haadith). A woman may work with her husband’s permission, although most occupations are forbidden to women. Only menial jobs left for them.[/b:post_uid0]

You oviously have lttle knowledge of present day Iran and specially of islam, humans are both equal in gods eyes but they have different fucntions to perform, there are certain jobs that a women in islam cannnot do (both with shia and sunni) and in any case what u are saying is so foolish that even the western media admits that today in Iran women enjoy some of the best jobs in the country, they are top of the league in almost all the fields be it: doctors, lawyers, scientists, and are very active in the international stages of human rights, there are more women in the universities than men! this is contrary to the what you are saying Iran is no Afghanistan  under the taliban!  While Talibans were created by the CIA with pakistani and saudi help Islamic Republic of Iran was created en mass by the Islamic and freedom loving people

[b:post_uid0]This is contrary to haadith: ibn Khalaf quoted the Prophet as saying: ‘O’ man, Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers’. Also unlike the Christians we don’t believe that women are inferior because they came from the rib of Adam. [/b:post_uid0]

in islam women are treated with real respect more so than in the secular western states where women are mere sex objects nothing more than that.

[b:post_uid0]It clearly states in Qu’ran ‘I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labours in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other (3:195). See the hypocrisy!![/b:post_uid0]

I can see the ignorance in you!

[b:post_uid0]Why do you persist in calling such a state an 'Islamic Republic'. Now granted that there is alot of propaganda against Iran from the west, but I know ALL of it can't be false.[/b:post_uid0]

and why not, in anycase no one is claiming Iran is perfect you got to compare like with like, compare it with another mid east country or another muslim country or any other developing nation and then see who comes on the top!

Iran I belive it to be a truely Islamic state, I am not saying it is perfect perhaps far behind being perfect but Isalmic republic of Iran is amongst the only few country in the world and the only muslim country that can stand on its own two feet and at the same time can put its two fingers inside the backside of the arrogant government of America

[b:post_uid0]What say you brother? [/b:post_uid0]

I know this was address to another brother but haqd to respond to your ingnorance and malice towards Islam.

...but I am a Bengali and from a  sunni family who follows The madhab of Imam Abu Hanifa.

All I can say is that when it comes ot the cruch it is the Shias that come the fastest to defend the religion of Muhammad and it is they who truly defend Islam and we the sunnis well what can I say just busy making money and are good at fighting between ourselves, and of you my friend I suggest go and do some learings about islam and its history perhaps then you might come out of your begging bowl mentality and this might also remove your inferior copmlex

Wassalam

------



Edited By Orion on 1034166556

[Jondab-Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim


Salaam Aleikum Brother Orion,

Nice convo you pasted there. Any chance I could get the link, either on here or through PM?

My MSN ID is:

It would be a great help for another job I am doing right now, thanks.

Wasalaam,


Jondab-Ali

[slave of allah]

[quote][color=#000000:post_uid0]In His Name, the Most High

Salaams



Those who say "Reform but Islamic Government should continue" what do they mean?

What kind of reforms?  

The kind of reforms that allow western garbage to come into Islamic Iran.

[Ehsan]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah wha Salam!
This bee just want to comment what the beeprincess (or beeking in this case     ) of this beecube (I'm talking about Admin. br. Ali here for those who do not understand   ) said on page to:

Quote

Yet again, you have wronged a group of people based on race and origin..  First Iraq, now Iran.  Does no one fill your eyes except converts living in England claiming scholarship?

Bro, that was not nice said. Sheikh Shabbir has never claimed to be a scholar, and everytime I call him sheikh he tell me not to and that he is not a sheikh. The reason for me calling him sheikh is pretty easy, of 4 reasons:
1. You can call one who is older then you sheikh (in old form arabic) and since he is twice the age I am (he is not old, its just me who am young ) I can call him sheikh because of that.
2. You can call somebody who has studied at the hawsa sheikh.
3. He is not a seyyed, he is a sheikh
4. You say sheikh to somebody who is wellversed in religion, and well sheikh Shabbir is.  

Some people might think its stupid to enlighten the bee king of the bee cube about something wrong he did, but this bee is so fond of the truth, that he has forgotten the taste of honey .
Now please no name callings, here. In my eyes Sheikh Shabbir is a sheikh even though he has never claimed it, and insh'Allah one day he will become a "official" one so you also can call him sheikh  

And furhter the sheikh himself said something good some posts back. Forget nationality!! Religion came to remove culture. First have Islam then if you want to be persian, arab, english or whatever be it after Islam. Put priority to Islam and view your nationality just as a tool to spread the word of Islam. Let me enlighten those of you who don't know with the beautiful history of Salam Muhammad/farsi (A):

The Son of Islam
It was before noon. Some Moslems sat in the Prophet's (s) Mosque waiting for Azan to say noon prayer.

Salman entered mosque and greeted his beliving brothers.

The Moslems wanted to know the Persian man's tribe. They mentioned their tribes loudly to let Salman hear them.

One of the said:
>I belong to Tamim's tribe.

Another said:
>I belong to Quraish

And the third said:
>I belong to al-Aus tribe.

and so on.

But Salman was silent. They wanted to know his tribe.
So they asked him:
>Salman, where are you from?

To teach them the meaning of Islam, Salman answered:
>I'm the son of Islam!
I was lost! So, Allah's guided me with Muhammad.
I was poor! So, Allah's made me rich with Muhammad.
I was a skave! So, Allah's released me with Muhammad.
This is my tribe!

The Moslems in mosque kept silent because Salman thaught them a lesson of Islam

/The companions of the Prophet and their Followers by Kamal al-Sayyid

[Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Salam Alaikum..

Beekeeper thanks the little bee for his advice and correction and apologizes for his shortcoming, but with an explanation.

We're not discussing whether or not culture shouldn't be an aspect when it comes to Islam.  Alhamdullilah, Islam in itself braught it's own perfect devine culture.  Everyone here agrees that religion comes before race or culture, no one dissagreed.

My dispute with the bro here is whether he has the right to critisize a whole nation (yes, whether we like it or not, cultures still exist within nations) based on what a few who belong to those cultures have done.

He has done this before, with the Iraqi people, and now with the Irani.  Ofcours we're all Muslims, yet most of us are still identified as Iraqies or Iranies.  It still does not in anyways give him the right to say what he said.

The statement regarding Iranies above is very ignorant.  I myself am not Irani yet I was still offended that someone decided to insult a whole nation.  Regardless if they chose culture over religion or religion over culture, a Nation is being insulted and that's not the best way to prove your point.

What would Irani brothers reading this site think if this statement went on un-critisized?

There are many ways a point can be conveyed without insulting a nation and it's people.

Just my $0.02

[Jondab-Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim


Salaam Aleikum Ali,

To re-iterate the words of my Iranian brother, Hezbullahi:

Quote

About the iranians being traitors, I am iranian and I am not offended because it is the truth, many iranians are traitors, especialy the ones who are outside of iran, they are worst then traitors, they are Vatan Foroosh ( nation sellers)

You know what Brother Shabbir meant, if you choose to take it out of context then it's really up to you.

But the fact still remains: Any Iranian who is against the Islamic Republic is a traitor. Simple.

As for the infamous words of IMAM ALI , which Imam used to curse the Iraqi's, TWICE, let me ask this:
Is it not Brother Shabbir's right to repeat the words of our Infalliable Imam on this board?

Or are we censoring the Imams now?

Wasalaam,


Jondab-Ali



Edited By Jondab-Ali on 1034199459

[Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]We had this discussion before.  The simple answer was, the Imam was cursing the people of that time.  How is a son responsible for a father's sin?

[Jondab-Ali]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim


Salaam Aleikum Ali,

Quote

...the Imam was cursing the people of that time.  How is a son responsible for a father's sin?

The son is never responsible for the fathers sin, unless of course the son follows in his fathers footsteps. Much like Yazid, son of Mua'wiyyah. I'm not making a direct comparison, but the idea is the same.

I'll leave you to think about that.

Wasalaam,


Jondab-Ali