walk in to the camp early morning, Prophet(saw) handed over the muslim colour to him , Ali refused and said my eyes are not well. Did Ali disobeyed Prophet(saw) again?
Edited by fatah, 23 July 2003 - 12:50 PM.
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#3
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Mabrook alaycom as-shahr!
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 01:02 PM
Selam alaycom,
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's
eyes were infected and the Prophet 
cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong.
Peace,
Um Ali
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's
eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong. Peace,
Um Ali
2:184. O ye who believe, fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard against evil.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:11 PM
Fatah, are you interested in knowing the truth???
"And any one who chooses a way of life other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." (3:85)
“Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
— Ariel Sharon
Israeli Prime Minister
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
“Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
— Ariel Sharon
Israeli Prime Minister
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
#5
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 04:40 PM
greetings to all,
fatah raised an interesting point. if in his view, imam ali disobeyed the blessed prophet by mentioning the problem he had with his eyes, then what does our friend fatah think about abu baker, umar and usman in the light of the fact that these three gentlemen were very quick to desert the prophet when things got a bit rough on the battlefield. usman never fought in badr, he stayed in medina on the pretext that his wife was sick. abu baker spent the entire battle of badr sitting next to the tent of the prophet [brothers say he was guarding it]. umar is not even mentioned twisting a finger of a kaffir. however, i have read that according to umar himself
"during the battle of badr, i [umar] saw ibn naufal who was fighting like a raged bull. i tried to avoid ibn naufal but ibn naufal saw me and said: "son of khattab today you cannot flee" (even the kaffir knew that umar was quick on his feet when it came to running) however, before he could harm me ali ibn abi talib challanged him and slew him"
in uhad we all know the story. it is even mentioned in the quran when the good sahaba were climbing the mountain and the prophet was calling them but they did not even glance back at him. i tell you the fear of death is such that under this fear people achieve the unachievable. umar climbed mount uhad in his own words like a mountain goat. another sahabi reports that: "as i was running i saw umar running alongside with me, i said what is all of this. he [umar] replied it is Allah's wish" usman ran a marathon. when he started to run he kept running and returned to medina three days later. the prophet saw him and said:" seems as if you went a bit too far" alas, what about abu baker. the poor good soul stayed low key right from the beginning of the battle. you know, under the arab tribal custom, before the actual fighting started, braves from both sides would come forward and challange their opponents to sngle combat. i haven't read anywhere in any sunni or shia history that the three squires i mean abu baker, umar and usman ever responded to a challange and killed any kaffir in single combat. i wonder why they never tried to cover themselves with glory afterall they even beat speedy gonzalez when it came to claim khilafat.
after uhad came the battle of ahzab again mentioned in the quran. dear o' dear how the quran describes the condition of the sahaba: "their hearts were in their throats and in their minds they were doubting Allah". why did not umar [al-farooq] rise from the ranks to offer himself whem amr ibn abdoowad challanged muslims for single combat. three times he challanged and three times only one person ali asadullah stood to accept the challange.
well lets forget khyber and finally mention hunain. again mentioned in the quran. "YOU WERE PROUD OF YOUR NUMBERS AND THUS, WE TESTED YOU AND YOU TURNED YOUR BACKS AND FLED" only six people remained loyal with the prophet. every history book has testified that ali was with the prophet but no book has mentioned that our three good gentlemen were there.
no offence intended to anyone but honestly umar and usman were nimble on their feet and even for their age they moved fast had the contest with the kaffir's been athletics, umar would no about have been our sprint champion and usman the marathon champion. abu baker was too old for this kind of stuff.
your's brotherly
devdas
PS: it is in al-bukhari that the reason for defeat in uhad was that the sahaba got drunk during the night that preceded the battle.
fatah raised an interesting point. if in his view, imam ali disobeyed the blessed prophet by mentioning the problem he had with his eyes, then what does our friend fatah think about abu baker, umar and usman in the light of the fact that these three gentlemen were very quick to desert the prophet when things got a bit rough on the battlefield. usman never fought in badr, he stayed in medina on the pretext that his wife was sick. abu baker spent the entire battle of badr sitting next to the tent of the prophet [brothers say he was guarding it]. umar is not even mentioned twisting a finger of a kaffir. however, i have read that according to umar himself
"during the battle of badr, i [umar] saw ibn naufal who was fighting like a raged bull. i tried to avoid ibn naufal but ibn naufal saw me and said: "son of khattab today you cannot flee" (even the kaffir knew that umar was quick on his feet when it came to running) however, before he could harm me ali ibn abi talib challanged him and slew him"
in uhad we all know the story. it is even mentioned in the quran when the good sahaba were climbing the mountain and the prophet was calling them but they did not even glance back at him. i tell you the fear of death is such that under this fear people achieve the unachievable. umar climbed mount uhad in his own words like a mountain goat. another sahabi reports that: "as i was running i saw umar running alongside with me, i said what is all of this. he [umar] replied it is Allah's wish" usman ran a marathon. when he started to run he kept running and returned to medina three days later. the prophet saw him and said:" seems as if you went a bit too far" alas, what about abu baker. the poor good soul stayed low key right from the beginning of the battle. you know, under the arab tribal custom, before the actual fighting started, braves from both sides would come forward and challange their opponents to sngle combat. i haven't read anywhere in any sunni or shia history that the three squires i mean abu baker, umar and usman ever responded to a challange and killed any kaffir in single combat. i wonder why they never tried to cover themselves with glory afterall they even beat speedy gonzalez when it came to claim khilafat.
after uhad came the battle of ahzab again mentioned in the quran. dear o' dear how the quran describes the condition of the sahaba: "their hearts were in their throats and in their minds they were doubting Allah". why did not umar [al-farooq] rise from the ranks to offer himself whem amr ibn abdoowad challanged muslims for single combat. three times he challanged and three times only one person ali asadullah stood to accept the challange.
well lets forget khyber and finally mention hunain. again mentioned in the quran. "YOU WERE PROUD OF YOUR NUMBERS AND THUS, WE TESTED YOU AND YOU TURNED YOUR BACKS AND FLED" only six people remained loyal with the prophet. every history book has testified that ali was with the prophet but no book has mentioned that our three good gentlemen were there.
no offence intended to anyone but honestly umar and usman were nimble on their feet and even for their age they moved fast had the contest with the kaffir's been athletics, umar would no about have been our sprint champion and usman the marathon champion. abu baker was too old for this kind of stuff.
your's brotherly
devdas
PS: it is in al-bukhari that the reason for defeat in uhad was that the sahaba got drunk during the night that preceded the battle.
Edited by devdas, 23 July 2003 - 04:46 PM.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:57 PM
Sallam u Alaikum
For Hunain
The Battle of Hunayn
The battle of Hunayn occurred after the victory of Makkah, in the month of Shawwal of the eighth year of Hijrah. After the Prophet conquered Makkah and things settled, most of its people embraced Islam and he set them free. News came to the Messenger of Allah that the tribe of Hawazin were gathering their forces to fight him, under the command of Malik bin `Awf An-Nadri, as well as, the entire tribe of Thaqif, the tribes of Banu Jusham, Banu Sa`d bin Bakr, a few people of Awza` from Banu Hilal and some people from Bani `Amr bin `Amir and `Awf bin `Amir. They brought their women, children, sheep and camels along, in addition to their armed forces and adequate supplies. The Messenger of Allah marched to meet them with the army that he brought to conquer Makkah, ten thousand from the Muhajirin, the Ansar and various Arab tribes. Along with them came the Tulaqa' numbering two thousand men. The Messenger took them along to meet the enemy. The two armies met in Humayn, a valley between Makkah and At-Ta'if. The battle started in the early part of the morning, when the Huwazin forces, who were lying in ambush, descended on the valley when the Muslims entered. Muslims were suddenly struck by the ambush, the arrows descended on them and the swords struck them. The Huwazin commander ordered them to descend and attack the Muslims as one block, and when they did that, the Muslims retreated in haste, just as Allah described them. The Messenger of Allah remained firm in his position while riding his mule, Ash-Shahba'. He was leading his mule towards the enemy, while his uncle Al-`Abbas was holding its right-hand rope and [his cousin] Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith bin `Abdul-Muttalib was holding the left rope. They tried to hold the mule back so it would not run faster toward the enemy. Meanwhile, the Messenger of Allah was declaring his name aloud and saying
(O servants of Allah! Come back to me! I am the Messenger of Allah! He repeated these words,)
(I am the Prophet, not lying! I am the son of Abdul-Muttalib!)
There remained between a hundred and eighty Companions with the Prophet . These included Abu Bakr, `Umar, Al-`Abbas, `Ali, Al-Fadl bin `Abbas, Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith, Ayman the son of Umm Ayman and Usamah bin Zayd. There were many other Companions, may Allah be pleased with them. The Prophet commanded his uncle Al-`Abbas, whose voice was rather loud, to call at the top of his voice, "O Companions of the Samurah [tree]'' referring to the Muhajirin and Ansar who gave their pledge under the tree during the pledge of Ridwan, not to run away and retreat. He also called, "O Companions of Surat Al-Baqarah.'' Upon hearing that, those heralded started saying, "Here we are! Here we are!'' Muslims started returning in the direction of the Messenger of Allah . If the camel of one of them did not obey him (as the people were rushing to the other direction in flight) he would wear his shield and descend from his camel and rush to the side of the Messenger of Allah on foot. When a large crowd gathered around the Messenger of Allah , he commanded them to fight in sincerity and took a handful of sand and threw it in the faces of the disbelievers, after supplicating to Allah,
(O Allah! Fulfill Your promise to me!)
Then he threw that handful of sand which entered the eyes and mouth of all the disbelievers, thus distracting them from fighting, and they retreated in defeat. The Muslims pursued the enemy, killing and capturing them. The rest of the Muslim army (returning to battle gradually) rejoined their positions and found many captured disbelieving soldiers kept tied before the Messenger of Allah . In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Shu`bah said that Abu Ishaq said that Al-Bara' bin `Azib said to a man who asked him, "O Abu `Amarah! Did you run away during Hunayn and leave the Messenger of Allah '' Al-Bara' said, "But the Messenger of Allah did not run away. Hawazin was a tribe proficient with their arrows. When we met them we attacked their forces and they ran away in defeat. The Muslims started to worry about collecting the spoils of war and the Hawazin started shooting arrows at us, then the Muslims fled. I saw the Messenger of Allah proclaiming, -- while Abu Sufyan was holding the bridle of his white mule,
(Then Allah did send down His Sakinah on His Messenger),
He sent down tranquillity and reassurance to His Messenger
(and on the believers),
who remained with him
(and sent down forces which you saw not, )
this refers to angels. Imam Abu Ja`far bin Jarir [At-Tabari] said that Al-Qasim narrated to them, that Al-Hasan bin `Arafah said that Al-Mu`tamir bin Sulayman said from `Awf bin Abi Jamilah Al-`Arabi who said that he heard `Abdur-Rahman, the freed slave of Ibn Barthan saying, "A man who participated in Hunayn with the idolators narrated to me, `When we met the Messenger of Allah and his Companions on the day of Hunayn, they did not remain in battle more than the time it takes to milk a sheep! When we defeated them, we pursued them until we ended at the rider of the white mule, the Messenger of Allah . At that time, men with white handsome faces intercepted us and said: `Disgraced be the faces! Go back. So we ran away, but they followed us. That was the end for us.''' Allah said,
(Then after that Allah will accept the repentance of whom He wills. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)
Allah forgave the rest of Huwazin when they embraced Islam and went to the Prophet , before he arrived at Makkah in the Ji`ranah area. This occurred twenty days after the battle of Hunayn. The Messenger gave them the choice between taking those who were prisoner or the war spoils they lost, and they chose the former. The Prophet released six thousand prisoners to them, but divided the war spoils between the victors, such as some of the Tulaqa', so that their hearts would be inclined towards Islam. He gave each of them a hundred camels, and the same to Malik bin `Awf An-Nasri whom he appointed chief of his people (Huwazin) as he was before. Malik bin `Awf said a poem in which he praised the Messenger of Allah for his generosity and extraordinary courage.
Ill discuss others later.
Sallam u Alaikum
For Hunain
The Battle of Hunayn
The battle of Hunayn occurred after the victory of Makkah, in the month of Shawwal of the eighth year of Hijrah. After the Prophet conquered Makkah and things settled, most of its people embraced Islam and he set them free. News came to the Messenger of Allah that the tribe of Hawazin were gathering their forces to fight him, under the command of Malik bin `Awf An-Nadri, as well as, the entire tribe of Thaqif, the tribes of Banu Jusham, Banu Sa`d bin Bakr, a few people of Awza` from Banu Hilal and some people from Bani `Amr bin `Amir and `Awf bin `Amir. They brought their women, children, sheep and camels along, in addition to their armed forces and adequate supplies. The Messenger of Allah marched to meet them with the army that he brought to conquer Makkah, ten thousand from the Muhajirin, the Ansar and various Arab tribes. Along with them came the Tulaqa' numbering two thousand men. The Messenger took them along to meet the enemy. The two armies met in Humayn, a valley between Makkah and At-Ta'if. The battle started in the early part of the morning, when the Huwazin forces, who were lying in ambush, descended on the valley when the Muslims entered. Muslims were suddenly struck by the ambush, the arrows descended on them and the swords struck them. The Huwazin commander ordered them to descend and attack the Muslims as one block, and when they did that, the Muslims retreated in haste, just as Allah described them. The Messenger of Allah remained firm in his position while riding his mule, Ash-Shahba'. He was leading his mule towards the enemy, while his uncle Al-`Abbas was holding its right-hand rope and [his cousin] Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith bin `Abdul-Muttalib was holding the left rope. They tried to hold the mule back so it would not run faster toward the enemy. Meanwhile, the Messenger of Allah was declaring his name aloud and saying
(O servants of Allah! Come back to me! I am the Messenger of Allah! He repeated these words,)
(I am the Prophet, not lying! I am the son of Abdul-Muttalib!)
There remained between a hundred and eighty Companions with the Prophet . These included Abu Bakr, `Umar, Al-`Abbas, `Ali, Al-Fadl bin `Abbas, Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith, Ayman the son of Umm Ayman and Usamah bin Zayd. There were many other Companions, may Allah be pleased with them. The Prophet commanded his uncle Al-`Abbas, whose voice was rather loud, to call at the top of his voice, "O Companions of the Samurah [tree]'' referring to the Muhajirin and Ansar who gave their pledge under the tree during the pledge of Ridwan, not to run away and retreat. He also called, "O Companions of Surat Al-Baqarah.'' Upon hearing that, those heralded started saying, "Here we are! Here we are!'' Muslims started returning in the direction of the Messenger of Allah . If the camel of one of them did not obey him (as the people were rushing to the other direction in flight) he would wear his shield and descend from his camel and rush to the side of the Messenger of Allah on foot. When a large crowd gathered around the Messenger of Allah , he commanded them to fight in sincerity and took a handful of sand and threw it in the faces of the disbelievers, after supplicating to Allah,
(O Allah! Fulfill Your promise to me!)
Then he threw that handful of sand which entered the eyes and mouth of all the disbelievers, thus distracting them from fighting, and they retreated in defeat. The Muslims pursued the enemy, killing and capturing them. The rest of the Muslim army (returning to battle gradually) rejoined their positions and found many captured disbelieving soldiers kept tied before the Messenger of Allah . In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Shu`bah said that Abu Ishaq said that Al-Bara' bin `Azib said to a man who asked him, "O Abu `Amarah! Did you run away during Hunayn and leave the Messenger of Allah '' Al-Bara' said, "But the Messenger of Allah did not run away. Hawazin was a tribe proficient with their arrows. When we met them we attacked their forces and they ran away in defeat. The Muslims started to worry about collecting the spoils of war and the Hawazin started shooting arrows at us, then the Muslims fled. I saw the Messenger of Allah proclaiming, -- while Abu Sufyan was holding the bridle of his white mule,
(Then Allah did send down His Sakinah on His Messenger),
He sent down tranquillity and reassurance to His Messenger
(and on the believers),
who remained with him
(and sent down forces which you saw not, )
this refers to angels. Imam Abu Ja`far bin Jarir [At-Tabari] said that Al-Qasim narrated to them, that Al-Hasan bin `Arafah said that Al-Mu`tamir bin Sulayman said from `Awf bin Abi Jamilah Al-`Arabi who said that he heard `Abdur-Rahman, the freed slave of Ibn Barthan saying, "A man who participated in Hunayn with the idolators narrated to me, `When we met the Messenger of Allah and his Companions on the day of Hunayn, they did not remain in battle more than the time it takes to milk a sheep! When we defeated them, we pursued them until we ended at the rider of the white mule, the Messenger of Allah . At that time, men with white handsome faces intercepted us and said: `Disgraced be the faces! Go back. So we ran away, but they followed us. That was the end for us.''' Allah said,
(Then after that Allah will accept the repentance of whom He wills. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)
Allah forgave the rest of Huwazin when they embraced Islam and went to the Prophet , before he arrived at Makkah in the Ji`ranah area. This occurred twenty days after the battle of Hunayn. The Messenger gave them the choice between taking those who were prisoner or the war spoils they lost, and they chose the former. The Prophet released six thousand prisoners to them, but divided the war spoils between the victors, such as some of the Tulaqa', so that their hearts would be inclined towards Islam. He gave each of them a hundred camels, and the same to Malik bin `Awf An-Nasri whom he appointed chief of his people (Huwazin) as he was before. Malik bin `Awf said a poem in which he praised the Messenger of Allah for his generosity and extraordinary courage.
Ill discuss others later.
Sallam u Alaikum
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:18 PM
jlainqatar, on Jul 23 2003, 01:02 PM, said:
Selam alaycom,
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong.
Peace,
Um Ali
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's
eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong. Peace,
Um Ali
not say when asked to go and fight that my eyes are not well?
#11
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:27 PM
fatah, on Jul 23 2003, 06:19 PM, said:
alifaia, on Jul 23 2003, 03:11 PM, said:
Fatah, are you interested in knowing the truth???
You want the truth? I'm presuming that you've already read the Quran so I suggest you to go read Nahjul Balagha (Peak of Eloquence). It wont hurt bro.
Wassalam.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:49 PM
SajjadT, on Jul 23 2003, 06:27 PM, said:
fatah, on Jul 23 2003, 06:19 PM, said:
alifaia, on Jul 23 2003, 03:11 PM, said:
Fatah, are you interested in knowing the truth???
You want the truth? I'm presuming that you've already read the Quran so I suggest you to go read Nahjul Balagha (Peak of Eloquence). It wont hurt bro.
Wassalam.
#13
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And in prayer lies the coolness of my eye and my peace of mind.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:03 PM
Actually the only people who DID NOT run was Abbas, Fazal bin Abbas, usamah and Abu Sufiyan bin Harith. this is according to Mughazi vol. III page 602
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:12 PM
Khadim Al-Mehdi, on Jul 23 2003, 08:03 PM, said:
Actually the only people who DID NOT run was Abbas, Fazal bin Abbas, usamah and Abu Sufiyan bin Harith. this is according to Mughazi vol. III page 602
I have not read any tradition that is authentic tha stated Abu Bakr running/retreating from any battle except Uhud in which him and Zubayr were the First to return to the Prophet. I may be mistaken.
BTW the above was taken from Tafsir ibn Kathir. I do not know who is Mughazi.
oh well thts all i have to say ... for the topic
Edited by salmany, 23 July 2003 - 08:27 PM.
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 09:02 PM
fatah, on Jul 23 2003, 06:18 PM, said:
jlainqatar, on Jul 23 2003, 01:02 PM, said:
Selam alaycom,
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong.
Peace,
Um Ali
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's
eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong. Peace,
Um Ali
not say when asked to go and fight that my eyes are not well? likewise.. his eyes were nto well.. so he said my eyes arent well.. once the prophet gave him his eyes.. (money in prev ex).. he went and conquered..
peace bro..
fatah/hataf you really should look up what Quran says about people that like to cause 'fitna'..
#16
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 10:16 PM
Bismillah
Salam Alaikum
Br. Salmany, from Maghazi means the expditions. Bukhari has a complete chapter on it.
Moreover, the writer of article (which is posted by br. Salmany) said:
There remained between a hundred and eighty Companions with the Prophet . These included Abu Bakr, `Umar, Al-`Abbas, `Ali, Al-Fadl bin `Abbas, Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith, Ayman the son of Umm Ayman and Usamah bin Zayd.
There are 3 traditions in Bukhari, book of expeditions, in whih Qatada is giving testimony about fleeing of hadhrat Umar.
Tijani Samawi Sahib and all other Shia scholars did a discussion about role of Hadhrat Umar in Hunain.
Especially, nobody knows how hadhrat Umar came to this conclusion that it was the order of Allah (swt) to run away for the fear of their lives. Every one is asking if Allah sent this revelation upon Hadhrat Umar that it was His order to run away. And Hadhrat Umar has been accused of misguiding people in name of Allah.
And Allah knows the best.
==============
Allah swt said at Hunain (i.e. 9th Hijri)
But before that, Allah (swt) already took promise from the believers that they will never run away from the battlefield. And the one who does so, he is under the Ghasab of Allah.
Was Salam.
Salam Alaikum
Br. Salmany, from Maghazi means the expditions. Bukhari has a complete chapter on it.
Moreover, the writer of article (which is posted by br. Salmany) said:
There remained between a hundred and eighty Companions with the Prophet . These included Abu Bakr, `Umar, Al-`Abbas, `Ali, Al-Fadl bin `Abbas, Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith, Ayman the son of Umm Ayman and Usamah bin Zayd.
There are 3 traditions in Bukhari, book of expeditions, in whih Qatada is giving testimony about fleeing of hadhrat Umar.
Quote
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:
Narrated Abu Qatada:
When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"
Narrated Abu Qatada:
When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"
Tijani Samawi Sahib and all other Shia scholars did a discussion about role of Hadhrat Umar in Hunain.
Especially, nobody knows how hadhrat Umar came to this conclusion that it was the order of Allah (swt) to run away for the fear of their lives. Every one is asking if Allah sent this revelation upon Hadhrat Umar that it was His order to run away. And Hadhrat Umar has been accused of misguiding people in name of Allah.
And Allah knows the best.
==============
Allah swt said at Hunain (i.e. 9th Hijri)
Quote
[Shakir 9:25] Certainly Allah helped you in many battlefields and on the day of Hunain, when your great numbers made you vain, but they availed you nothing and the earth became strait to you notwithstanding its spaciousness, then you turned back retreating.
But before that, Allah (swt) already took promise from the believers that they will never run away from the battlefield. And the one who does so, he is under the Ghasab of Allah.
Quote
[Shakir 8:15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.
[Shakir 8:16] And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.
[Shakir 8:16] And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.
Was Salam.
Nasibi Aqeeda that all Sahaba have got Salvation who participated in Bait-e-Ridhwan
Contrary to Nasibi Aqeedah, Salvation is based only upon Good Deeds, and not on Companionship.
Bait-e-Ridhwan took place in 6-7 Hijri, while Allah threatened severly same Sahaba in Quran in 9th Hijri [i.e. after 2-3 years of Bait-e-Ridhwan], when they did the Evil Deed of not participating in Jahad of Tabuk.
[Shakir9:39] If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.
Visit the full thread and see all Quranic Verses and fabricated Sunni Ahadith that Nasibies misquote in order to prove that All Sahaba are Forgiven for their Sins due to their Companionship.
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39092&st=0
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Contrary to Nasibi Aqeedah, Salvation is based only upon Good Deeds, and not on Companionship.
Bait-e-Ridhwan took place in 6-7 Hijri, while Allah threatened severly same Sahaba in Quran in 9th Hijri [i.e. after 2-3 years of Bait-e-Ridhwan], when they did the Evil Deed of not participating in Jahad of Tabuk.
[Shakir9:39] If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.
Visit the full thread and see all Quranic Verses and fabricated Sunni Ahadith that Nasibies misquote in order to prove that All Sahaba are Forgiven for their Sins due to their Companionship.
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39092&st=0
اردو مناظرہ کتب
Urdu Manazra Books
#17
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 10:24 PM
Sallam
Regarding verses
O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battlefield,) when you get near the enemy and march towards them,
(never turn your backs to them.) do not run away from battle and leave your fellow Muslims behind,
(And whoever turns his back to them on such a day -- unless it be a stratagem of war...)
The Ayah says, whoever flees from the enemy by way of planning to pretend that he is afraid of the enemy, so that they follow him and he takes the chance and returns to kill the enemy, then there is no sin on him. This is the explanation of Sa`id bin Jubayr and As-Suddi. Ad-Dahhak also commented, "Whoever went ahead of his fellow Muslims to investigate the strength of the enemy and make use of it,
(or to retreat to a troop (of his own)), meaning he leaves from here to another troop of Muslims to assist them or be assisted by them. So that is allowed for him, or even during the battle if he flees from his brigade to the commander. Or going to the grand Imam, would also fall under this permission.''
`Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said about Abu `Ubayd when he was fighting on the bridge in the land of the Persians, because of the many Zoroastrian soldiers, "If he retreated to me then I would be as a troop for him.''
This is how it was reported by Muhammad bin Sirin from `Umar. In the report of Abu `Uthman An-Nahdi from `Umar, he said: When Abu `Ubayd was fighting, `Umar said, "O people! We are your troop.'' Mujahid said that `Umar said, "We are the troop of every Muslim.'' Abdul-Malik bin `Umayr reported from `Umar, "O people! Don't be confused over this Ayah, it was only about the day of Badr, and we are a troop for every Muslim.'' Ibn Abi Hatim [recorded] that Nafi` questioned Ibn `Umar, "We are people who are not stationary when fighting our enemy, and we may not know where our troop is, be it that of our Imam or our army.''
So he replied, "The troop is Allah's Messenger .'' I said but Allah said,
(when you meet those who disbelieve in the battlefield) to the end of the Ayah . So he said; "This Ayah was about Badr, not before it nor after it.''
Sallam
Regarding verses
O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve, in a battlefield,) when you get near the enemy and march towards them,
(never turn your backs to them.) do not run away from battle and leave your fellow Muslims behind,
(And whoever turns his back to them on such a day -- unless it be a stratagem of war...)
The Ayah says, whoever flees from the enemy by way of planning to pretend that he is afraid of the enemy, so that they follow him and he takes the chance and returns to kill the enemy, then there is no sin on him. This is the explanation of Sa`id bin Jubayr and As-Suddi. Ad-Dahhak also commented, "Whoever went ahead of his fellow Muslims to investigate the strength of the enemy and make use of it,
(or to retreat to a troop (of his own)), meaning he leaves from here to another troop of Muslims to assist them or be assisted by them. So that is allowed for him, or even during the battle if he flees from his brigade to the commander. Or going to the grand Imam, would also fall under this permission.''
`Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said about Abu `Ubayd when he was fighting on the bridge in the land of the Persians, because of the many Zoroastrian soldiers, "If he retreated to me then I would be as a troop for him.''
This is how it was reported by Muhammad bin Sirin from `Umar. In the report of Abu `Uthman An-Nahdi from `Umar, he said: When Abu `Ubayd was fighting, `Umar said, "O people! We are your troop.'' Mujahid said that `Umar said, "We are the troop of every Muslim.'' Abdul-Malik bin `Umayr reported from `Umar, "O people! Don't be confused over this Ayah, it was only about the day of Badr, and we are a troop for every Muslim.'' Ibn Abi Hatim [recorded] that Nafi` questioned Ibn `Umar, "We are people who are not stationary when fighting our enemy, and we may not know where our troop is, be it that of our Imam or our army.''
So he replied, "The troop is Allah's Messenger .'' I said but Allah said,
(when you meet those who disbelieve in the battlefield) to the end of the Ayah . So he said; "This Ayah was about Badr, not before it nor after it.''
Sallam
Edited by salmany, 23 July 2003 - 10:28 PM.
#18
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 12:40 AM
[QUOTE]
bro hataf/fatah
Reading Qur'an is one thing understanding it is another, by grace of Allah Almighty I am in process of trying to understand the words of Almighty and Merciful, all other sources are suspect, so to acquire the truth one must first understand or atleast try to understand the words of Allah.
-Kudos. Wa la yalamu taweelahu illalah wa rasekhoona fi ilm.
-Now u will join the elite band of 'rasikh'. congrats.
akhbari
bro hataf/fatah
Reading Qur'an is one thing understanding it is another, by grace of Allah Almighty I am in process of trying to understand the words of Almighty and Merciful, all other sources are suspect, so to acquire the truth one must first understand or atleast try to understand the words of Allah.
-Kudos. Wa la yalamu taweelahu illalah wa rasekhoona fi ilm.
-Now u will join the elite band of 'rasikh'. congrats.
akhbari
Edited by akhbari, 24 July 2003 - 12:41 AM.
Akhbari
Bar munkiran e walayat e Ameer(as) - Lanaat Beshumaar
Bar munkiran e walayat e Ameer(as) - Lanaat Beshumaar
#19
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 04:07 AM
Salaams Salmany
Bro your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Umar the lion stayed at Hunain and his fleeing was tactical - then perhaps you could cite me a source where Umar said his fleeing was tactical. Does he mention it in Bukhari - or are you applying Qiyas?
Bukhari confirms his running, if he came back later (for arguments sake) that was only when the coast was clear! Bukhari confirms Umar ran AWAY and this can be confirmed in books, of Ahl’ul Sunnah clearly state that in the battle of Hunayn, in which ten thousand companions (including all those who had done bay'ah under the tree) had participated, all of them fled away except four who remained steadfast, three of them were from the Prophet's clan, Banu Hashim ('Ali ibn Abi Talib, 'Abbas ibn 'Abdul Muttalib and Abu Sufyan ibn al Harith ibn 'Abdul Muttalib) and one from another clan ('Abdullah ibn Mas'ud)."
see Tarikh al Khamis, vol 2. p. 113 As Sirah al Halabiyah. vol. 3. p 255
Im afraid your King wasnt the warrior you think he was.
Bro your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Umar the lion stayed at Hunain and his fleeing was tactical - then perhaps you could cite me a source where Umar said his fleeing was tactical. Does he mention it in Bukhari - or are you applying Qiyas?
Bukhari confirms his running, if he came back later (for arguments sake) that was only when the coast was clear! Bukhari confirms Umar ran AWAY and this can be confirmed in books, of Ahl’ul Sunnah clearly state that in the battle of Hunayn, in which ten thousand companions (including all those who had done bay'ah under the tree) had participated, all of them fled away except four who remained steadfast, three of them were from the Prophet's clan, Banu Hashim ('Ali ibn Abi Talib, 'Abbas ibn 'Abdul Muttalib and Abu Sufyan ibn al Harith ibn 'Abdul Muttalib) and one from another clan ('Abdullah ibn Mas'ud)."
see Tarikh al Khamis, vol 2. p. 113 As Sirah al Halabiyah. vol. 3. p 255
Im afraid your King wasnt the warrior you think he was.
#20
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 04:27 AM
fatah, on Jul 23 2003, 11:18 PM, said:
jlainqatar, on Jul 23 2003, 01:02 PM, said:
Selam alaycom,
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong.
Peace,
Um Ali
Maybe he is referring to the incident when Imam Ali's
eyes were infected and the Prophet cured them with his saliva... then he went into battle. He never disobeyed the Prophet . fatah or hataf.... either way, you are wrong. Peace,
Um Ali
not say when asked to go and fight that my eyes are not well? Saying that his eyes were infected does not amount to disobedience, by any definition.
#21
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 04:50 AM
Salam
Bro Salmany where did you get that fairytale of a story from???
It is a known fact that if someone flees from the battlefield it is forbidden to chase them, yet you say that under the Prophet's (S) rule he allowed such a thing?
The article has lost just alittle bit more credibility.
Bro Salmany where did you get that fairytale of a story from???
Quote
Then he threw that handful of sand which entered the eyes and mouth of all the disbelievers, thus distracting them from fighting, and they retreated in defeat. The Muslims pursued the enemy, killing and capturing them.
It is a known fact that if someone flees from the battlefield it is forbidden to chase them, yet you say that under the Prophet's (S) rule he allowed such a thing?
The article has lost just alittle bit more credibility.
#22
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 05:14 AM
AOA.
This is interesting:
This tells me that Abu Ubayd was in the forefront weilding his sword while Umar the Fleet of Foot was hanging around out of danger somewhere at the back.
So far back in fact that for Abu ubayd to actually get his help, for what it was worth, he would have to "retreat" - to me that suggests taking more than just a couple of steps back!
Salmany is not just living in a different land, he is, I am afraid, on a different planet.
Regards
This is interesting:
Quote
`Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said about Abu `Ubayd when he was fighting on the bridge in the land of the Persians, because of the many Zoroastrian soldiers, "If he retreated to me then I would be as a troop for him.''
This tells me that Abu Ubayd was in the forefront weilding his sword while Umar the Fleet of Foot was hanging around out of danger somewhere at the back.
So far back in fact that for Abu ubayd to actually get his help, for what it was worth, he would have to "retreat" - to me that suggests taking more than just a couple of steps back!
Salmany is not just living in a different land, he is, I am afraid, on a different planet.
Regards
Laanat on the enemies of the Ahl-e-Bait and laanat on all those who support or defend the enemies of the Ahl-e-Bait
#23
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And in prayer lies the coolness of my eye and my peace of mind.
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 07:44 AM
salmany, on Jul 24 2003, 01:12 AM, said:
Khadim Al-Mehdi, on Jul 23 2003, 08:03 PM, said:
Actually the only people who DID NOT run was Abbas, Fazal bin Abbas, usamah and Abu Sufiyan bin Harith. this is according to Mughazi vol. III page 602
I have not read any tradition that is authentic tha stated Abu Bakr running/retreating from any battle except Uhud in which him and Zubayr were the First to return to the Prophet. I may be mistaken.
BTW the above was taken from Tafsir ibn Kathir. I do not know who is Mughazi.
oh well thts all i have to say ... for the topic
#24
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 11:54 AM
Sallam u Alaikum
Firstly, the things i posted, although they may not be 100 percent authentic in your eyes, were from Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
However, i will take the approach my dear brother Khadim has sometimes taken with me...
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN IN A BATTLE?
The answer will probably be none of you and even if you were involved in one, then it wasnt to the level as was Badr, or Hunayn or Uhud where you fought with swords, one to one etc etc
One person i respect most was and is my Grandfather. He fought in Afghanistan against the Russians and he fought in Kashmir against India. Now he has told me that in war feelings arise, fear, anger, bravey, sadness and all these feelings take over. At one point you fear and retreat then you feel brave and return and so on.
Similarly, a person my friend knows, Ali Reza who has been in the Iraq war for 8 years also states the same... yout hink the Mujahids of Iran have never withdrawn? Have never feared ? If you dont your wrong.
All these feelings are in the modern era, where face to face fighting is long gone. Think what it was like before!
Lets get one thing straight. Escape and withdrawing are two different things. Escaping is what Hazrat Uthman did at Uhud when he returned to MEdina and didnt return ( May Allah forgvie him). In the hadith of Bukhari, IBn Qatada never explicitly explains if he was Withdrawing or ESCAPING. Therefore we also have the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir which states Umar being there, therefore he may have returned.
As for the Hadith in which Umar States "It is Allahs order" any person would know that the word used in this verse is "Amrollah" which means this is the Qaza of Allah. This was a very normal expression amongst the Arabs liek the Persians say "Khaste Khodast" which means Allah wanted it this way. These expressions are used when a person is sad, at a sad and distressful moment.
No one has to deny the bravery of Ali, he was the Lion of Allah. He was a better warrior then everyone.
Anyway Sis Zainabiah, you posted a narration. It is just like the one you posted regardng the Sahaba breaking their Salat when it was actually them leaving the Khutbah. I think you may remember that post. Therefore, see the story as a whole dear sister.
Can someone please provide me references to he the 4 were who stayed from Shia sources?
Sallam u Alaikum
Firstly, the things i posted, although they may not be 100 percent authentic in your eyes, were from Tafsir Ibn Kathir.
However, i will take the approach my dear brother Khadim has sometimes taken with me...
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN IN A BATTLE?
The answer will probably be none of you and even if you were involved in one, then it wasnt to the level as was Badr, or Hunayn or Uhud where you fought with swords, one to one etc etc
One person i respect most was and is my Grandfather. He fought in Afghanistan against the Russians and he fought in Kashmir against India. Now he has told me that in war feelings arise, fear, anger, bravey, sadness and all these feelings take over. At one point you fear and retreat then you feel brave and return and so on.
Similarly, a person my friend knows, Ali Reza who has been in the Iraq war for 8 years also states the same... yout hink the Mujahids of Iran have never withdrawn? Have never feared ? If you dont your wrong.
All these feelings are in the modern era, where face to face fighting is long gone. Think what it was like before!
Lets get one thing straight. Escape and withdrawing are two different things. Escaping is what Hazrat Uthman did at Uhud when he returned to MEdina and didnt return ( May Allah forgvie him). In the hadith of Bukhari, IBn Qatada never explicitly explains if he was Withdrawing or ESCAPING. Therefore we also have the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir which states Umar being there, therefore he may have returned.
As for the Hadith in which Umar States "It is Allahs order" any person would know that the word used in this verse is "Amrollah" which means this is the Qaza of Allah. This was a very normal expression amongst the Arabs liek the Persians say "Khaste Khodast" which means Allah wanted it this way. These expressions are used when a person is sad, at a sad and distressful moment.
No one has to deny the bravery of Ali, he was the Lion of Allah. He was a better warrior then everyone.
Anyway Sis Zainabiah, you posted a narration. It is just like the one you posted regardng the Sahaba breaking their Salat when it was actually them leaving the Khutbah. I think you may remember that post. Therefore, see the story as a whole dear sister.
Can someone please provide me references to he the 4 were who stayed from Shia sources?
Sallam u Alaikum
Edited by salmany, 24 July 2003 - 12:10 PM.
#25
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 12:47 PM
Quote
breaking their Salat when it was actually them leaving the Khutbah.
I don't know about Sunnis, but in Shi'a fiqh the khutbah is an integral part of the Salaat and leaving the khutbah is just as bad as leaving the Salaat.
Just thought I'd point it out.
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