55 replies to this topic

[Khadim Al-Mehdi]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/2940580.stm


Last Updated: Wednesday, 28 May, 2003, 03:55 GMT 04:55 UK
Email this to a friend Printable version
US steps up pressure on Iran
Donald Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld: Iran being "unhelpful" regarding Iraq
Senior Bush administration officials have issued new warnings to Iran not to interfere in the reconstruction of Iraq.

Tehran was also told to do more to tackle terrorism despite its claims that it has arrested members of Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.

US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was one of those with strong words for Tehran, warning that any attempt by Iran to build an Islamic republic in its neighbour Iraq would be quashed.

He told the Council of Foreign Relations that Iran was "being unhelpful today with respect to Iraq".

"Iran should be on notice; efforts to try to remake Iraq in Iran's image will be aggressively put down," Mr Rumsfeld said.

In the same speech, Mr Rumsfeld acknowledged that Iraq may have destroyed all its chemical munitions and weapons of mass destruction before the US-led invasion last March.

He said this may explain why such weapons were not used against coalition forces during the recent conflict.

Nuclear claims

The defence secretary's comments about Iraq came amid further accusations from Washington that Tehran has been harbouring fugitive members of Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network and trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

Analysis: US-Iran rift widens

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said on Tuesday that steps Iran had taken regarding the capture of al-Qaeda suspects were "insufficient", despite the country's arrest of several suspected members on Monday.

He also said the US continued to suspect that weapons development was at the heart of Iran's nuclear industry.

Iran has denied all the allegations, with foreign ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi saying he hoped the US would "avoid taking an interventionist stance".

The heat on Iran is likely to be turned up even further on 16 June if - as Washington hopes - the International Atomic Energy Agency signals grave doubts that Iran's network of nuclear facilities are merely designed for power generation.

The issue of Iran is said to have revived the split between moderates in the Bush administration who favour diplomacy and hardliners who prefer more robust action.

Suspect vehicle found in Iraq which the US now says was used as a biological weapons lab
The issue of Iraqi weapons programmes has proved contentious

On Tuesday a meeting between top US officials on Iran was reportedly suspended until Thursday, US officials told Reuters news agency, which observers say may be due to such a split.

Iran suspects hardliners in Washington of moving to undermine or change Iran's Islamic system, the BBC's Jim Muir in Tehran says, while the US in turn is worried that Islamic factions may try to install a theocracy-like government in Baghdad, echoing the Iranian regime that came to power in the 1979 revolution.

Washington also accuses Tehran of links to suicide attacks on Western targets in the Saudi capital Riyadh earlier this month which killed 34 people.

Rumsfeld 'admission'

Mr Rumsfeld said in the same speech that he did not know why Iraq had not used the weapons of mass destruction against coalition forces invading in the country.

He said that they may have been destroyed prior to the recent conflict and he could not promise that such weapons would be found.

However, he said many suspected weapons sites had still to be investigated.

President Bush and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair had cited their belief that Iraq had banned weapons as the main reason for their attack in March and April that led to the downfall of Saddam Hussein's rule.

BBC correspondent Justin Webb said that Mr Rumsfeld's statements were the closest the Bush administration has yet come to an admission that no weapons of mass destruction are going to be found in Iraq.

[The Canuck]

Quote

Mr Rumsfeld said in the same speech that he did not know why Iraq had not used the weapons of mass destruction against coalition forces invading in the country.
"

So Rumsfeld was expecting his own soldiers to die of weapons of mass destruction.  

and innocent Iraqi people that would be stuck in the way?

[XtremeMalang]

WMD in Iraq          
The American Freedom to Lie         

Seems like the lies are now ludicrous with the accusations that Iran would support Al Qaeda (America supporting Al Qaeda would be more plausible...that's how much a lie this one is).

A few titles from the future:

"L A N D   O F   L I A R S AND LIES"
Best-selling book on America circa early twenty-first century, published 2015, author N.O. Moreyank. ISBN No. (ISlamic Book Number) 198274-UpYoursYankii  
First non-fiction book to reach #1 spot on the international  Best-seller list of 2015 after the Holy Qur'an.

"The phenomenon of mass collective delusion: a comparison of state-sponsored media manipulation by Nazi Germany and America under George Bush Jnr."
PhD thesis 2010

"Bush or Harding: Which was the most corrupt administration in US history?"
Essay for 15 year olds, set 2020

"History of The Americans"
History Channel, circa 2100, final installment in a series on the world's lost empires.

"Gangs of New York Part II"
Rated R. Post-apocalyptic film about life in a US city following the nuclear holocaust America unleashed on mankind and in which it got destroyed, circa 2090. Not for people under the age of 18.

"The world's most wanted"
Photos of the 10 most wanted men - all Americans - circa 2020

"URayankeeL1ar: nonsense codons for lying gene identified in American subjects."
Nature May 30 2020, awarded Nobel Prize for Medicine 2011

"Pride comes before a fall"
Warning to Americans May 30, 2003

        

Edited by XtremeMalang, 29 May 2003 - 09:38 PM.

[Brooklyn FatPants]

Xtreme -

Funny post.

However, America is many things, and does many wrong things, but Americans are fundamentally good people who certainly don't deserve to be compared to the Nazis or to be thought of as being genetically predisposed to lie.

Make sure in your posts that continue to distinguish between the goals of the Bush Administration and the people of America.  The vast majority of Americans want to live at peace with the world and truly feel that any meddling in the affairs of other nations is wrong.

Most Americans are fairly rational and are not very amused by the goings-on in the Middle East.  The mainstream American media is doing a poor job covering the Bush Administration, and all of this may become obvious during the presidential election season (or maybe not).

And just because on the Internet, rationality and reason are never as sexy as confrontation and name-calling, don't use individuals like OMV and US Patriot to stand in for most Americans.

[Khadim Al-Mehdi]

Brooklyn FatPants, on May 30 2003, 03:39 AM, said:

Xtreme -

Funny post.

However, America is many things, and does many wrong things, but Americans are fundamentally good people who certainly don't deserve to be compared to the Nazis or to be thought of as being genetically predisposed to lie.

Make sure in your posts that continue to distinguish between the goals of the Bush Administration and the people of America.  The vast majority of Americans want to live at peace with the world and truly feel that any meddling in the affairs of other nations is wrong.

Most Americans are fairly rational and are not very amused by the goings-on in the Middle East.  The mainstream American media is doing a poor job covering the Bush Administration, and all of this may become obvious during the presidential election season (or maybe not).

And just because on the Internet, rationality and reason are never as sexy as confrontation and name-calling, don't use individuals like OMV and US Patriot to stand in for most Americans.

Read the post carefully and take  your time. THe article does not menition the people of america. However it does make mention of govt. officials and "washington" which deals with the govt of the U.S.

[Brooklyn FatPants]

"L A N D O F L I A R S AND LIES"


"URayankeeL1ar: nonsense codons for lying gene identified in American subjects."

"Pride comes before a fall"
Warning to Americans May 30, 2003

The above items seem targeted to all Americans and not the Bush Administration to me.

[Jondab-Ali]

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim


Greetings,

Quote

However, America is many things, and does many wrong things, but Americans are fundamentally good people who certainly don't deserve to be compared to the Nazis or to be thought of as being genetically predisposed to lie.

I agree. Germany under Hitler wasn't "Nazi", it's just a shame that the Nazi party were so powerful that they could indoctrinate a mass of the population into believing that Hitler's wars were "wars of liberation".


Nazi war poster reads, "Germany's War, Europe's Liberty".

It can happen to any nation.

Quote

Make sure in your posts that continue to distinguish between the goals of the Bush Administration and the people of America. The vast majority of Americans want to live at peace with the world and truly feel that any meddling in the affairs of other nations is wrong.

I understand. We should indeed continue to distinguish between the oppressed people of America and their (arguably) elected Rulers. The fact that a few people see the US Empire as "liberators" doesn't change the reality of the matter.


Rejoicing women, one crying with joy, give the Nazi salute to welcome the 'Liberation' of Austria by the Nazi's

We Muslims must understand that the carefully crafted media image of the situtation hardly reflects the way a vast majority of people feel. In the same way that the mainstream Western media outlets told us that the Iraqi's were "happy to be liberated", we know the reality. We mustn't forget that just because the media put words in the mouths of the American public, that this is the perspective that the everyday American sees the world from. We must remember that this propaganda is more a war for the hearts and minds of the unsure Americans than for us. The rulers are attempting to convince Americans to see the world from the perspective that we see in the mainstream media, and pledge alleigance to the rulers, no matter the reservations they may have.

Quote

Most Americans are fairly rational and are not very amused by the goings-on in the Middle East. The mainstream American media is doing a poor job covering the Bush Administration, and all of this may become obvious during the presidential election season (or maybe not).

I agree totally.

Quote

And just because on the Internet, rationality and reason are never as sexy as confrontation and name-calling, don't use individuals like OMV and US Patriot to stand in for most Americans.

True. In the same way, please don't use Muslims like myself as a reflection of Islam. Please study for yourself and do not gain a bias based upon my personal opinions.

Sincerely,


Jondab Ali

[hello]

Salamun Alaykom,

Quote

Make sure in your posts that continue to distinguish between the goals of the Bush Administration and the people of America. The vast majority of Americans want to live at peace with the world and truly feel that any meddling in the affairs of other nations is wrong.

Brooklyn.....when i talk of "America" i talk of its government...... its the same when Ayatollah Khoeimeini described the USA as the "Great Satan"..... he was referring to the government and its actions....just like george bush said "axis of evil"....

considering only 40% of the voting population vote in the elections, it is very hard to say bush speaks for americans....

We are aware and support those americans who stand up for truth, justice and true freedom.  The most vivid, and perhaps unbelievable, example is the American groups tha go to Palestine in demonstrate against the zionist entity, line in line with the Palestinians...... as a matter of a fact, as you would know, amerians have been killed by the so-called "israeli defence force".........

We are never speakin about the people, and no we dont hate the west becuase "they have a good time"...when one says they hate america or the west, they mean the government...... American people are far more just then that, inshaAllah.........


My two cents worth...


Wassalam

[Jondab-Ali]

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim


Salaams,

Quote

The most vivid, and perhaps unbelievable, example is the American groups tha go to Palestine in demonstrate against the zionist entity, line in line with the Palestinians...... as a matter of a fact, as you would know, amerians have been killed by the so-called "israeli defence force".........

Photo's of American Shaheed Rachel Corrie, who died protecting Muslim homes from Zionist attack.


Shaheed Rachel Corrie, moments before she was killed, shouting at Zionist demonlition driver using megaphone


The bulldozer approaches to destroy the Palestinian home, still she stands her ground


The bulldozer drives on, regardless, crushing her under it's emmense weight.
As it backs away, fellow international volunteers rush to her aid.


But it is too late, for her injuries are too severe.
She dies minutes later from massive internal injuries.

---

Pictures of British Shaheed Tom Hurndall, who was murdered whilst attempting to rescue Muslim schoolchildren caught in Zionist cross-fire.


Shaheed Tom Hurndall


The Zionist watchtower where the sniper was hiding

Quote

His name was Thomas Hurndall and he was from London. When he arrived, we already had an English guy named Tom so he chose the nickname "Tab", and that is how I knew him. Tab was incredibly passionate about protecting people when and where they needed it most. We were in Yibna, a Rafah refugee camp right on the Egyptian border, because he was aware of the constant Israeli gunfire to which this neighbourhood is victim every day.

He'd learned about the two brothers who'd been shot the previous morning, and was dedicated to maintaining a presence there. He said that he'd gotten extremely angry and determined after listening to gunfire while lying in his bed at the doctor's house Rachel died protecting. He wanted to be in the most dangerous areas, not out of some martyr complex to die but simply because he knew that that is where internationals are most needed. ...

... There were children playing on the roadblock, as they often do, and many scattered due to the gunfire.

There was one boy, however, that Tab noticed was too frightened to move. Instinctually, he quickly removed him from the area, as he observed shots land around the small and fragile innocent. After successfully evacuating him, he was about to leave when he noticed two small girls down in front of the roadblock, right in the line of fire.

He was going to help them escape when the Israeli soldier in the tower took his aim, and fired a large calibre sniper bullet directly into Tab's head. He was in full view of the tower, and ... was wearing the high visibility gear.

--Joe Smith (American activist in Gaza, eyewitness)


Tom lays on the floor, fatally wounded, as a fellow activist screams for help

---

American activist Brian Avery was also killed by IDF gunfire, even as he stood still in the street, with another activist, alone with their hands up in the air.

Quote

At about 6.30 pm Brian and another ISM activist were at the ISM’s Jenin headquarters when they heard the sound of gunfire coming from the centre of the city, about two blocks away. They left the apartment to investigate and had traveled about a hundred metres when saw two armoured personnel carriers advancing towards them at low speed. There were no Palestinians on the streets in the area, armed or otherwise.

At the sight of the armoured vehicles both activists stood still and raised their hands above their heads.

When the first armoured personnel carrier was 50 metres from them it fired a burst of machine gun fire (an estimated 15 rounds) at the ground in front of them so that they were sprayed by a shower of broken bullets and stones. Tobias, Brian’s companion, leapt aside. He had fled about three steps when he looked back to see Brian lying face down on the road in a pool of blood.

--Source


American Shaheed Brian Avery, who was murdered by IDF machine gunfire


Palestinian doctors operate on Brian, where he was shot in the face


A friend of the Shaheed holds his flourescent orange bib, as worn by all international activists

Wasalaam,


Jondab Ali

[Brooklyn FatPants]

I certainly appreciate the elightened and informative responses.

As a non-Muslim white American, sites like this are useful to learn about other world views.

If there is any upside to a terrible event like those on Sept. 11, many Americans have been trying hard to quickly learn what it is that led to it.  

While I agree that most Americans should have been far more engaged about the issues that "suddenly" made the US the target for terrorism, most Americans have been fairly shocked when they learned the level of contempt that America is regarded in certain regions of the world.

The average American is, and rightly so, dismayed to be thought of as an exporter of war and terror.  We were always supposed to be on the right side of things.  America has always tried to stand for openness, honest debate, equality of opportunity, etc.  While it may not always workout that way, America as a nation strives very hard to protect the rights of those outside the political mainstream.

Propaganda only works when opposite voices are squelched.  Now that the American people are finally paying attention, maybe we can spend more time figuring out how to co-exist and deal fairly with other nations and opinions in the world as opposed to wrapping ourselves in the flag.

But, as you can all see, I don't think I certainly speak for all Americans either.

[lilacfatima]

You know Old for a self proclamed deist, you don't really follow their main modo. THINK
For someone so "mature" with age and even bieng a retired cop you would think you would have the ability to use your own brain. I mean come on, Are we supposed to take you seriously about world views and politics when you didn't even know that some Indian seihk (sp) was shot in your own state? That in it self tells me how much you really pay attention to what is going on around you. I'm sorry I just can't take your crap anymore. And what is it with you having to put a label on everybody? Maybe you should stick to posting in the JUST FOR FUN section of the forum.


jen

[Jondab-Ali]

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim


Greetings,

Quote

I certainly appreciate the elightened and informative responses.

Alhumdu lillah (All praises be to God), I hope that they were useful.

Quote

As a non-Muslim white American, sites like this are useful to learn about other world views.

Indeed. I used to visit various Islamic websites before I became Muslim. It helps to understand the diversity of opinion within the Muslim Ummah (nation).

Quote

While I agree that most Americans should have been far more engaged about the issues that "suddenly" made the US the target for terrorism, most Americans have been fairly shocked when they learned the level of contempt that America is regarded in certain regions of the world.

It's been like this for years. I didn't realise how hated the British Empire was until I read about the history of my country. It was actually 9-11 that made me research into Islam, before deciding that it was the right path.

Quote

The average American is, and rightly so, dismayed to be thought of as an exporter of war and terror. We were always supposed to be on the right side of things. America has always tried to stand for openness, honest debate, equality of opportunity, etc. While it may not always workout that way, America as a nation strives very hard to protect the rights of those outside the political mainstream.

Again, I felt the same way about my country, until I got on the otherside of the fence and saw police harassment and brutality for myself. I got involved with the protest movement when I was about 15, and began to realise that there were a small minority of people within my own society that served as representatives for the majority of the people of the world. The people of the poor and oppressed nations of the earth may be ignorant in many instances, but they know what is right. They know that they are being wronged, in many circumstances.

Quote

Propaganda only works when opposite voices are squelched. Now that the American people are finally paying attention, maybe we can spend more time figuring out how to co-exist and deal fairly with other nations and opinions in the world as opposed to wrapping ourselves in the flag.

Well, I think the most important thing is for the US to allow other nations true self-determination. People of the world (especially from developing countries) are tired of foreign interventions and meddling. Look at the mess in Africa. For example, in the Congo, where civil war has cost over 3.5 million lives since 1998 (source). Everyday, the death toll rises. Many of those doing the killing are child soldiers. All of this under the noses of UN "peacekeepers" who have no mandate to intervene. I am by no means blaming this conflict on the US. It is primarily the fault of certain neighbouring countries that are supplying weapons and stirring ethnic strife in order to divide and conquer.

The point I'm trying to make is that people are being killed in war almost every day, and yet were hardly ever hear about it. Why is the life of a Zionist settler (who made a choice to move to that place) worth numerous news reports, whereas the millions of lives of innocent Africans are barely worth a mention? How many people even know what's going on in Africa? Latin America? Or anywhere for that matter, except for Iraq and Palestine? The mainstream intellectual discourse is littered with arguments over the legitimacy of Palestinian resistance, and yet completely brushes aside any questioning of Zionist ideology as "anti-semitic". It is this fundamental imbalance in perspective, which is compounded by the media, that causes difficulties in relating a free-press to an open-mind.

This "squelching" of opposition voices is not done by force. It is much more advanced, and subtle in it's silencing of dissension.

One night, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given to him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Mr. Swinton offered a toast to the "independent press". Mr. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:

Quote

There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.

There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with.

Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.

The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?

We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.

--Source: "Labor's Untold Story" by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais

Quote

But, as you can all see, I don't think I certainly speak for all Americans either.

No, but you speak as a voice of rationality, obviously not completely indoctrinated into a certain mode as others have been. We should always attempt to maintain such an open mind. I have been Muslim less than a year (I was Christian before), but I have found that there are many Muslims who are unable to maintain an open mind, also. It is an unfortunate condition that any complacent human being can be afflicted with.

Sincerely,


Jondab Ali

Edited by Jondab-Ali, 30 May 2003 - 01:53 PM.

[Khadim Al-Mehdi]

Brooklyn FatPants, on May 30 2003, 03:26 PM, said:

"L A N D O F L I A R S AND LIES"


"URayankeeL1ar: nonsense codons for lying gene identified in American subjects."

"Pride comes before a fall"
Warning to Americans May 30, 2003

The above items seem targeted to all Americans and not the Bush Administration to me.

Ahh

I see,  you are not referring to the BBC article. You were not clear as to who you were talking to.

[lilacfatima]

salaam alaikum

Khadim I like your sig   (just noticing I know, I'm a little slow )

wa salaam
aliya

[roya]

MORE LIES REVEALED
from the wire again, sorry this is how it looks. ignore the edit remarks. they update throughout the news cycle.

Wolfowitz comments revive doubts over Iraq’s mass destruction
weapons

By ROBERT H. REID
Associated Press Writer
    BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) — European critics of the Iraq war
expressed shock Friday at published remarks by a senior U.S.
official seen as playing down the importance of Iraq’s weapons of
mass destruction as a reason for going to war.

    In an interview in the next issue of Vanity Fair magazine,
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz cited bureaucratic reasons
for focusing on Saddam Hussein’s alleged arsenal.

    “The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the
U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that
everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as
the core reason,” Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in a Pentagon
transcript of the interview.

    Vanity Fair provided a slightly different version in the
article: “For bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue,
weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone
could agree on.”

    In the interview, Wolfowitz cited one outcome of the war that
was “almost unnoticed — but it’s huge”: it removed the need to
maintain American forces in Saudi Arabia as long as Saddam was in
power. Vanity Fair interpreted Wolfowitz to say that the withdrawal
of U.S. troops from Saudi Arabia was one major reason for going to
war, rather than just an outcome.

    Those troops were sent to Saudi Arabia to protect the desert
kingdom against Saddam, whose forces invaded Kuwait in 1991, but
their presence in the country that houses Islam’s holiest sites
enraged Islamic fundamentalists, including Osama bin Laden.

    Within two weeks of the fall of Baghdad, the United States
announced it was removing most of its 5,000 troops from Saudi
Arabia and would set up its main regional command center in Qatar.

    “Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source
of enormous difficulty for a friendly government,” he said. “It’s
been a huge recruiting device for al-Qaida. In fact if you look at
bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of
so-called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I
think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to
open the door to other positive things.”

    As the United States sought to build international support for
the war, it did not publicly spell out as a goal the withdrawal of
its troops from Saudi Arabia. Instead, the Bush administration
focused on Saddam’s failure to dismantle chemical, biological and
nuclear weapons programs.

    Wolfowitz was asked about the Vanity Fair interview during a
news conference in Singapore on Friday and referred reporters to
the Pentagon transcript.

    He said the United States had three concerns about Iraq before
the war: weapons of mass destruction, terrorism and the abuse of
Iraqi citizens by Saddam’s regime.

    “All three of those have been there, they’ve always been part
of the rationale, and I think it’s been very clear,” he said.

    Nevertheless, the focus of the debate over the need for war
centered on Saddam’s weapons, and the failure of U.S. forces to
locate extensive stocks has raised doubts in a skeptical Europe
whether Iraq represented a global security threat.

    Wolfowitz’s comments followed a statement by Defense Secretary
Donald H. Rumsfeld, who suggested this week that Saddam might have
destroyed his banned weapons before the war began.

    On Friday, the commander of U.S. Marines in Iraq said he was
surprised that extensive searches have failed to discover any of
the chemical weapons that U.S. intelligence had indicated were
supplied to front line Iraqi forces at the outset of the war.

Quote

   “Believe me, it’s not for lack of trying,” Lt. Gen. James
Conway told reporters. “We’ve been to virtually every ammunition
supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they’re
simply not there."

    The remarks by Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld revived the controversy
over the war as President Bush left for a European tour in which he
hopes to put aside the bitterness over the war, which threatened
the trans-Atlantic partnership.

    In Denmark, whose government supported the war, opposition
parties demanded to know whether Prime Minister Anders Fogh
Rasmussen misled the public about the extent of Saddam’s weapons
threat.

Quote

    “It was not what the Danish prime minister said when he
advocated support for the war,” Jeppe Kofod, the Social Democrats’
foreign affairs spokesman, said in response to Wolfowitz’s
comments. “Those who went to war now have a big problem explaining
it.”

    Former Danish Foreign Minister Niels Helveg Petersen said he was
shocked by Wolfowitz’s claim. “It leaves the world with one
question: What should we believe?” he told The Associated Press.

    In Germany, where the war was widely unpopular, the Frankfurter
Allgemeine Zeiting newspaper said the comments about Iraqi weapons
showed that America is losing the battle for credibility.

Quote

    “The charge of deception is inescapable,” the newspaper said
Friday.

    In London, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, who quit
as leader of the House of Commons to protest the war, said he
doubted Iraq had any such weapons.

    “The war was sold on the basis of what was described as a
pre-emptive strike, ’Hit Saddam before he hits us,’ “ Cook told
British Broadcasting Corp. “It is now quite clear that Saddam did
not have anything with which to hit us in the first place.”
    During a visit to Poland, British Prime Minister Tony Blair said
Friday he has “absolutely no doubt” that concrete evidence will
be found of Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction.
    “Have a little patience,” Blair told reporters.
    AP-WS-05-30-03 1450EDT

[Brooklyn FatPants]

Old Marine Vet, on May 30 2003, 01:20 PM, said:

No, I suppose you and your liberal apoligists speel are opinion of the vast majority of Americans?

I seriously doubt it, your other post where you are stating that Americans should find out the causes of why we were attacked is typical of the warped leftist mentality, don't place the sole blame of the attacks on the religious whackos who committed them, no lets spread out the guilt to include America society too.

Ever heard of Neville Chamberlain, you and him could be soul mates!

OMV -

I'm not going to get into a flame war with you.  

I'm no liberal apologist, just a person who is always searching for information.  

I think the internal debate in the US over whether there is value to trying to understand the other side's point of view is a total and complete joke.

The attempt to determine why someone acts they do is not equal to supporting their actions.  Conservatives always get tripped up on this point.

There is a huge distinction between understanding the frustrations of the Islamic world toward the US and absolving the hijackers of their actions on Sept. 11.  

Information is power.  I don't fear learning about opinions other than my own, no matter how I feel about what I learn.

Edited by Brooklyn FatPants, 30 May 2003 - 02:58 PM.

[Khadim Al-Mehdi]

lol

Yawn

[Jondab-Ali]

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim


Greetings,

Quote

The time for "understanding the others point of view" is over when they start flying airplanes into buildings, killing thousands.

I, and the vast majority of americans are not interested in that, we are interested in finding a way to wipe them out!

This is a very short-sighted policy. How many people out of 1.2billion do you think you will be able to "wipe out", before they "wipe you out"?

We do not agree with the 9-11 incident, it was a crime according to Islamic Law. Whilst we understand the motivations and frustrations of those involved in those attacks, we in no way condone them.

Sincerely,


Jondab Ali

[Brooklyn FatPants]

Old Marine Vet, on May 30 2003, 03:10 PM, said:

The time for "understanding the others point of view" is over when they start flying airplanes into buildings, killing thousands.

I, and the vast majority of americans are not interested in that, we are interested in finding a way to wipe them out!



No there isn't! Radical Islam is anti-western, anti-infidel, period!

The Zionist crappola, is just that, crappola, a ruse, if the Muslim world really cared about the plight of the Palestinians, they would have accomodated them, they haven't though, have they?

I have to confess that those are pretty lame responses.

[roya]

Old Marine Vet, on May 30 2003, 08:10 PM, said:

The time for "understanding the others point of view" is over when they start flying airplanes into buildings, killing thousands.

I, and the vast majority of americans are not interested in that, we are interested in finding a way to wipe them out!



No there isn't! Radical Islam is anti-western, anti-infidel, period!

The Zionist crappola, is just that, crappola, a ruse, if the Muslim world really cared about the plight of the Palestinians, they would have accomodated them, they haven't though, have they?

right. like you took time to understand before they flew the planes ...
international events are such a hot topic in america and all ..  no wonder your president had to explain Why Do They Hate Us

god, this is getting boring. I second br. Khadim's yawn.

[roya]

This just in from the wire

Bush to confront “dangers of evil” in Auschwitz death camp visit
AP Photo
By TONY CZUCZKA
Associated Press Writer
    KRAKOW, Poland (AP) — President Bush starts his trip to Europe
and the Middle East somberly — with a visit to the former Nazi
death camp at Auschwitz meant to drive home the “dangers of evil
unchecked.”

guess the arabs are up there with the germans now ...

here's some background on auschwitz

  A former Carmelite convent nearby was closed in 1993 after
protests by Jewish groups, which objected to the presence of
Christian religious symbols.
    Jews also sought the removal of a large wooden cross used in a
1979 papal Mass at Birkenau that was placed near Auschwitz in 1988
and visible from inside the camp. The cross was put up in memory of
152 Poles executed by the Nazis in 1941.
    Conservative Catholics rallied and erected more than 200 smaller
crosses. Polish soldiers removed those in 1999, but the larger
cross remained.
    A now-closed disco in a former tannery where Auschwitz inmates
once labored and plans to develop a shopping center near the former
death camp site have also sparked protests by Jewish groups and
Auschwitz survivors.

Edited by roya, 30 May 2003 - 03:35 PM.

[Frodo]

Quote

The Zionist crappola, is just that, crappola, a ruse, if the Muslim world really cared about the plight of the Palestinians, they would have accomodated them, they haven't though, have they

Listen dimwat, the great majority of the countries in the ME are illegitimate, authoritarian regimes (supported and courted by the great US of A) who only give lip-service to the Palestinian cause and ignore the wishes and desires of the peoples over whom they rule. The explanation given for not accomodating ALL Palestinians is that it would defeat the cause and principle anyways if they all left their lands. Plus, Palestinians in many Arab countries (such as Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, ect..) are given many benefits and priveleges that the common citizens of those countries are not.