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Colliding neutron stars

Haji 2003


There was news this week that we had observed two neutron stars colliding. And while the forces at work seemed beyond imagination, it occurred to me that much of our development has involved observing phenomena, moving onto measuring and assessing its propertles and ultimately (sometimes) using or managing it in some way.

And the ways that we have been able to do this have become more sophisticated. I smile when people in the comments section of newspapers disparage solar power in countries such as the UK. because we have many days with poor sunlight. The advent of the Tesla powerwall and subsequent work in that area will surely help to address that.

I think our trajectory is one where we'll be able to exert more and more control over more powerful elements in nature. On the one hand it will give theists greater understanding over the power and benevolence of the Creator and at the same time for atheists the greater material power that we have may enable them to believe that we do not need a God to determine our destiny.


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The thought that people would some day control nature (and presumably themselves )and create some representations of Utopias was one of the pillars of " western thought" during the 1800's. It got kicked in the head during WWI and subsequent events. Then there was, IMHO, a bit of an over correction and that's why we have some rather nasty forms of modern fundamentalisms in western Christianity.

We live on the" Ring of Fire" and that will never be tamed by human hands. It tends to keep you humble when your homeland rocks and rolls. Lol.

But the technology you mentioned is a logical step.  I also hope we will have healthcare like the UK some day. According to our stupid politicians, it will not work. Meanwhile the Canadians giggle. My European friends don't understand this country. Neither do I sometimes. ( I do get clinic healthcare through IHS by flashing a tribal ID. Works fine. Don't know why it wouldn't for everyone .)

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17 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

We live on the" Ring of Fire" and that will never be tamed by human hands. It tends to keep you humble when your homeland rocks and rolls. Lol.

But AIUI a cataclysmic event is some time in the distance.

IMHO whereas atheists could be concerned by such events from any source happening at any time, theists (Abrahamic variety at least) may be reassured that a Creator has bigger plans for mankind that preclude wipeout anytime soon.

Indeed what history has shown us is that people who end up owning bits of the future are those who have gained a better understanding of nature and how it can be exploited. Those people may even end up supplanting people who have a prior claim on those resources, but who don't fully appreciate their value.

They've discovered tunnels on the moon that may make colonisation more feasible.


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^ Well, lol, if you live here, you know the " cataclysmic event" is forever immanent. There is no "distance". We never know when it will strike. The science doesn't either. (The damage will be massive and will affect the economy and history of this current nation-state in huge ways. )This has nothing to do with any Abrahamic apocalyptic  scenario, even though it will be the end of the world for plenty of people.

 You can't control geology. You can only hope your survival measures are adequate. If anything, humans were far safer in the past when the houses were made of non-masonry and there were no such things as gas lines, bridges, power lines , etc. Now your " civilized" house is likely to be the first thing that kills you. In fact, just about every one who dies in earthquakes nowadays does so because of something that was brought here by " advanced" people. 

Yes,exploitation of resources that poison water and land are just fantastic in ,in this case, settler eyes. They sure  " know the value" of things alright. Guess " exploiting" the resources in appropriate ways that keep things going for eons is stupid. How come the food supply was adequate for untold thousands of years around here and it took the " advanced" settlers barely one hundred to (almost) mess things up completely? Now our indigenous teams are putting things back together.  My son has spent the better part of a year restoring an important watershed that will now return to nourishing an entire ecosystem. A lot of the exploiters are shutting down and leaving. And we're still here and always plan to be as long as there are humans here. To hell with the  owonkinish narrative. 

I'm personally glad settler types  are planning on colonizing the moon. I will help them pack.

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3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Guess " exploiting" the resources in appropriate ways that keep things going for eons is stupid.

If in the process the nation involved loses its people, its identity and the belief system that kept things that way, then while it is not for me to say whether it is stupid or not, it fails the survivability test. The irony is that ultimately it has no members around that care that they lost. 

And it is not a one-way bet. As the people of Easter island found out. Similarly, there are other nations that are developing sustainable technologies and who will likely gain a competitive advantage over those who thought they did not need to.

3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I'm personally glad settler types  are planning on colonizing the moon. I will help them pack.

That's a symptom of the problem. Those settler types may well gain new knowledge of what your land could be worth and the more productive future uses to which it could be put, that you may not understand unless you went to the moon as well.

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^ The settlers'  current life ways  , as now stands, are not sustainable. They are finding that out. The ways that were here before obviously were,even with challenges and occasional setbacks. We learned from that over thousands of years. And we are still here. They are failing and losing their belief systems, etc. Ours is undergoing revival. You can't fight weather and tectonic plates. That's the way this planet is set up. Learn to live with it without ruining your food and water supply....or die. How that happens in the future is the task. 

The " value of land "depends on the attitudes of the people. How much are your holy sites worth to you? Should they be dug up and strip-mined by outsiders for " progress"?

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

How much are your holy sites worth to you? Should they be dug up and strip-mined by outsiders for " progress"?

There is literally just the cube of the Ka'aba. And most of the time its religious significance is in the form of GPS co-ordinates.

The rest are just socio-political-cultural constructs. We visit shrines as and when politics etc. allow the shrines to even stand, but at other times they may also be just locations, such as the Baqi cemetry in Medina.

Certainly, there is no sanctity attached to large tracts of land.

1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

They are failing and losing their belief systems, etc. Ours is undergoing revival.

A bit ironic coming from a Catholic Indian.

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Native customs regarding care for the land are followed here by Christian and pagan alike. There is no conflict.

We also have specific as well as general sacred sites. But....Big, little...sacred is sacred.

Let's turn all of Mecca into an open-pit mine, starting with the Kaaba. It's just a place and who knows what resources are available? Why should it be special?

I'm thinking a lot of Muslims would not be down with that, but I'd like to see the debate.

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8 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Let's turn all of Mecca into an open-pit mine, starting with the Kaaba. It's just a place and who knows what resources are available? Why should it be special?

Call it blind luck or divine providence, but it just so happens that there is a sea of oil in the region around the Ka'aba, which keeps the drillers more than happy. Obviously no one strip mines oil, God made sure of that.

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