Imamology

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The Sun Will Rise From Where It Set

Qa'im

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

A famous eschatological expression is that the Sun will rise from the West ( طلوع الشمس من المغرب من المحتوم ). In Muslim, the Prophet Muhammad (s) says, "When three things appear, a person's faith will not avail him if he had not believed before or did not earn goodness from his faith: (1) The rising of the Sun from its setting place, (2) The Dajjal, and (3) The Beast of the Earth." (ثلاث إذا خرجن لا ينفع نفسا إيمانها لم تكن آمنت من قبل أو كسبت في إيمانها خيرا: طلوع الشمس من مغربها، و الدجال ودابة الأرض ).

In my reading of the hadith literature, there is a strong indication that this Sun is not the star that our Earth rotates around, but actually a man. The Sun is a luminous golden object that brings light, clarity, guidance, warmth, and the growth of our crops. A narration about the Mahdi says, "The one whom Jesus the son of Mary will pray behind is the twelfth from the progeny, the ninth from the loins of al-Husayn b. `Ali [a]. He is the Sun that will rise from its setting place." ( إن الذي يصلي عيسى بن مريم خلفه هو الثاني عشر من العترة ، التاسع من ولد الحسين بن علي عليهما السلام وهو الشمس الطالعة من مغربها ).

A careful study of the Quran will show that light represents the religion (61:8, which Allah will always preserve) and guidance (2:257). 33:46 describes the Prophet as "an illuminated lamp" (siraj, a word also used for "Sun"), and 5:15 describes him as a "light". In one hadith, the Imam as-Sadiq describes the Prophet as the Sun in Surat ash-Shams ( الشمس رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله به أوضح الله عز وجل للناس دينهم ), and in another hadith, the "day" in 92:2 that follows the night is the Mahdi who will arise after oppression ( والنهار إذا تجلى قال: النهار هو القائم منا أهل البيت إذا قام غلب دولة الباطل ). The Mahdi's occultation is compared to that of the Sun behind the clouds ( وأما وجه الانتفاع بي في غيبتي فكالانتفاع بالشمس إذا غيبتها عن الابصار السحاب ).

These comparisons between the Mahdi and the Sun is a similitude to the Prophet. The Mahdi is the most similar man to the Prophet, because he is like him in form and in character ( أشبه الناس بي خلقا وخلقا ), and he will openly declare and explain the religion to the world. The Mahdi will take his example until Islam becomes dominant, manifest, clear, and overspreading ( بسيرة ما سار به رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله حتى يظهر الاسلام ). 39:69 says that the "Earth will shine with the light of its Lord", and the hadiths indicate that it will shine by the light of the Mahdi's coming ( وأشرقت الارض بنور ربها " قال رب الارض يعني إمام الارض، ).

This begs the question: if the Mahdi is the Sun, what does it mean to rise from its place of setting? Rather than saying that there would be a change of the Earth's axis, we should consider the root of the word gharb (غرب). It has come to mean "set", but in its most basic sense, it means "to become a stranger, odd, obscure, difficult to comprehend, and to go away and depart". This is because the Sun passes above us, then becomes "estranged" from us and leaves us, setting in the West. A stranger in Arabic is a ghareeb. This brings us to the Prophetic hadith, "Islam began as a stranger, and it shall return as a stranger, so blessed are the strangers" ( إن الاسلام بدا غريبا وسيعود كما بدا فطوبى للغربا ). Just as the Prophet came by himself to an adverse society, Islam would return in the Mahdi, who would be estranged from his community and coming with a call that most people will not be familiar with. It is said that, by the time of his coming, the religion of Islam will be barely recognizable from the principles taught by our Prophet, so much so that it will be as though the Mahdi is bringing a new religion. Imam `Ali said that the Qa'im would recommence Islam just as the Prophet did ( إذا قام القائم عليه السلام استأنف دعاء جديدا كما دعا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله ), and Imam Ja`far repeated the same idea ( يستأنف الداعي منا دعاء جديدا كما دعا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله ).

Just as the Mahdi faded into obscurity, he would return out of that obscurity. He is currently in the clouds, which is to say that the occultation has surrounded him in opaque confusion, but that his affect on the Earth is still present. His companions will also be strangers who are not recognized ( إذا يستغني الناس عن ضوء الشمس ونور القمر ويجتزون بنور الامام ), and they are gathered with him like cirrus clouds ( فيظهر في ثلاثمائة وثلاثة عشر رجلا عدة أهل بدر على غير ميعاد قزعا كقزع الخريف رهبان بالليل أسد بالنهار ). "At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory." (Mark 13:26) When he returns, "mankind shall have no need of the light of the Sun and the light of the Moon, and they shall pass by the light of the Imam." ( إذا يستغني الناس عن ضوء الشمس ونور القمر ويجتزون بنور الامام ). Meaning, they will be able to go directly to the Imam for guidance, and we will no longer need to seek out other sources of light.

May Allah hasten his luminous coming.

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Bismillah.

Salam Alaykum.

Allahuma sal e alla Mohammad wa all e Mohammad. Allahuma ajalee walaekal faraj. Ya Allah, Ya the Master of the day and night, Ya the Master of the universe, Ya the Master of the day of Judgment, please hasten the return of your proof on earth, our Imam e zaman a.s. and eradicate his enemies and give success and victory to his lovers, Ameen Ya Rabbul Alameen.

Wasalam.

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Another possibility is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

We are many hundreds of thousands of years overdue a reversal of polarity, which is when the Earth's magnetic field flips.  When this happens, North on our compasses will be the current South, and vice versa.  And this means that West becomes what is now East, and so the Sun will rise from the West.  Geographically and astronomically, everything will appear the same; its just that East and West change places, because North and South do.

Edited by .InshAllah.

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On 11/12/2016 at 5:18 PM, .InshAllah. said:

Another possibility is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

We are many hundreds of thousands of years overdue a reversal of polarity, which is when the Earth's magnetic field flips.  When this happens, North on our compasses will be the current South, and vice versa.  And this means that West becomes what is now East, and so the Sun will rise from the West.  Geographically and astronomically, everything will appear the same; its just that East and West change places, because North and South do.

This isnt necessarily true (the "overdue" part).  If you have been reading up on magnetic reversals lately, feel free to enlighten me, but I would say that, looking at the past few million years is a relatively small data set to work with.  In the grand scheme of things, we could be thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years away from the next reversal and not overdue at all.

 

Edited by iCambrian

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Not to mention that I think a polar reversal would result in an almost instantaneous extinction of our species. There would be no time for the Sun to rise from the West, we'd all be dead before then lol. Keep in mind that the Sun rising from its setting-place is supposed to be a sign of the End Times, and not the apocalypse itself - that would happen much later.

Hameedeh, Bakir, Sumayyeh and 1 other like this

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6 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

Not to mention that I think a polar reversal would result in an almost instantaneous extinction of our species. There would be no time for the Sun to rise from the West, we'd all be dead before then lol. Keep in mind that the Sun rising from its setting-place is supposed to be a sign of the End Times, and not the apocalypse itself - that would happen much later.

Of course I would have to ask...why do you believe a reversal would kill us?

Here

http://www.livescience.com/18426-earth-magnetic-poles-flip.html

 

Edited by iCambrian

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9 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Of course I would have to ask...why do you believe a reversal would kill us?

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I heard that it may cause earthquakes or ruin our ozone layer. What are your thoughts?

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37 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I heard that it may cause earthquakes or ruin our ozone layer. What are your thoughts?

Well, i think the article i linked seemed fine.  The magnetic field does protect us from radiation form space.  So alterations in the direction its facing probably wouldnt be the best.  But...if you buy into it, if reversals did occur, say every 500k years. If life has been here for several billion years, then...well, you get the idea.  Life has lived through countless reversals. We have survived through countless reversals, though we simply werent recording information back then and probably werent even aware of it.

So, a magnetic reversal alone, i dont think would be a means of extinction.  Even if hypothetically there were ill effects from it, i imagine mankind would work and do what we have to do to get by. As we always have i suppose.

For the planet to become inhabitable by mankind, i think it would have to go through some pretty rugged changes, not that such changes arent unheard of in earth history, but certainly unheard of  since...well i suppose 65 million years ago when the dinosaurs went down.

Edited by iCambrian
Sumayyeh and 12reasons4truth. like this

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10 hours ago, iCambrian said:

This isnt necessarily true (the "overdue" part).  If you have been reading up on magnetic reversals lately, feel free to enlighten me, but I would say that, looking at the past few million years is a relatively small data set to work with.  In the grand scheme of things, we could be thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of years away from the next reversal and not overdue at all.

 

This  is from the NASA website:  

"Reversals are the rule, not the exception. Earth has settled in the last 20 million years into a pattern of a pole reversal about every 200,000 to 300,000 years, although it has been more than twice that long since the last reversal.''

 

So i would say based on the pattern of reversals over the last 20 million years, we are overdue a reversal. 

 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html

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9 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Not to mention that I think a polar reversal would result in an almost instantaneous extinction of our species. There would be no time for the Sun to rise from the West, we'd all be dead before then lol. Keep in mind that the Sun rising from its setting-place is supposed to be a sign of the End Times, and not the apocalypse itself - that would happen much later.

From the same site that @.InshAllah. quoted (my bold):

Quote

The science shows that magnetic pole reversal is – in terms of geologic time scales – a common occurrence that happens gradually over millennia. While the conditions that cause polarity reversals are not entirely predictable – the north pole's movement could subtly change direction, for instance – there is nothing in the millions of years of geologic record to suggest that any of the 2012 doomsday scenarios connected to a pole reversal should be taken seriously. A reversal might, however, be good business for magnetic compass manufacturers.

 

 

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2 hours ago, .InshAllah. said:

This  is from the NASA website:  

"Reversals are the rule, not the exception. Earth has settled in the last 20 million years into a pattern of a pole reversal about every 200,000 to 300,000 years, although it has been more than twice that long since the last reversal.''

 

So i would say based on the pattern of reversals over the last 20 million years, we are overdue a reversal. 

 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html

I don't think their " rule not exception" statement is referring to a 200-300k time phrame.  I think they're just saying that it happens, vs not happening. Especially since they immediately state that the most recent occurred over twice that time ago. 

 

to say something is overdue would be to imply that it is later than expected. But when you would expect it to occur changes based on your data set. So I guess it's subjective. You see what you want to see, you pick the set of data that you want to pick.

 

 

Edited by iCambrian

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6 hours ago, iCambrian said:

ck95.jpg

If we look at a larger dataset, we can see that the current "inter reversal" time isnt uncommon at all (even in the past 30mya as NASA had referenced)

http://deeptow.whoi.edu/text/ck95.txt

Thanks for the picture.   It seems that the overall trend over the last 80million yrs is that these reversals are getting more frequent.  But this trend isnt smooth but rather choppy, and leaves room for the occasional  reversal to take a bit longer.  I guess the next reversal will be one of these that takes a bit longer

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This 'Pole reversal' thing, does this mean the earths magnetic fields will reverse, or does it actually mean the earth will stop rotating around it's axis, and reverse rotate the other way around? 

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On 11/17/2016 at 9:26 AM, YAli said:

This 'Pole reversal' thing, does this mean the earths magnetic fields will reverse, or does it actually mean the earth will stop rotating around it's axis, and reverse rotate the other way around? 

Earth's magnetic poles will reverse and (probably) nothing will happen to life, this process is underway as we speak. Earth spinning the other way around it's axis would be the result of some catastrophic impact, like the hypothesized impact that reversed Venus' rotation.

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On 11/15/2016 at 7:50 PM, Qa'im said:

Not to mention that I think a polar reversal would result in an almost instantaneous extinction of our species. There would be no time for the Sun to rise from the West, we'd all be dead before then lol. Keep in mind that the Sun rising from its setting-place is supposed to be a sign of the End Times, and not the apocalypse itself - that would happen much later.

No it wouldn't this has happened many times in the past and guess what, a wide variety of animals are still here.  

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The physical Sun may as well rise from the West, this may be possible then. But this does not change what I said - our literature says that the Mahdi is this Sun rising from its setting place, that he is currently behind the clouds, that his companions are like cirrus clouds, that Islam would come back as a stranger (ghareeb, form the word gharb), and that he would light up the whole world. If the future scientists declare that the Sun will physically rise from the West in the year 3000 for example, this does not mean that Qiyama will occur that year, because all of our sources say that it will come unexpectedly. If the poles change place in our lifetime, and nothing happens thereafter, then you'll need to consider alternative possibilities and interpretations. This one, I think, is a very organic interpretation when you put everything together.

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